Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
I’m legends I’m sure he is, in canon I don’t see it.He died cause it was his time to go? Where does it say that? He went out rather pathetically. Where was he ever as powerful as Vader? Give an example.
Obviously rey n kylo defeated them but one on one they would have died. I doubt Vader would have had the problem rey or kylo did, he’d just force choke them etc.
Vader lifting AT walkers, smacking around imperial guards, etc is in the newest Vader comic lol....
Obviously windu in current canon was an utter shadow of his legends power.
Wait for more Boba stuff to come out, then? I don't doubt he'll regain his glory.
Luke went out pathetically? He just ended projecting himself from half the galaxy away onto a planet with a convincing projection. He also gave himself to the force, like Kenobi and Yoda. That, in and of itself, is an impressive feat. He's a jedi. He doesn't go out with destruction. He uses the force for knowledge and defense. If that's your idea of "pathetic", then you need to reconsider your idea of power.
When I said it was his "time to go", I was referring to him giving himself to the force, the way Yoda and Obi-Wan did. When he took the impact of projecting himself, he recovered, got back on the rock, and then gave himself away. It's very obvious.
https://youtu.be/sU2Uja7RIBs?t=8m
Well, what makes you doubt Vader would have had that problem? When have we seen him force choke that many soldiers that are trying to attack him? It's been made clear through the movies that it's hard for a force user to focus attacks like that when they're being attacked, much less from all directions. He couldn't force choke all of the rebel soldiers in rogue one, and they were just common people like you and me. These preaoritans are made for fighting lightsaber dueling enemies.
If you're applying your own sense of logic, then I ask you why Vader didn't just force choke Luke in Episode 4 instead of walking towards him as the door closed? Or catch him with the force when he jumped off cloud city in Episode 5?
Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Quan canon says Vader held back you dipshit lol. Canon also has Vader lifting up AT walkers, etc.You’re an utter ****ing buffoon 😆 Luke was such a weakling he lost to Rey. End of story.
Luke did indeed NOT lose to Rey. He was basically just toying with her despite being 40 years older than her, and not having fought for decades. This was until she pulled a lightsaber on him. That'd be like if you were swordfighting and the other person pulled out a handgun, or maybe an activated blowtorch is a better example. Something that can legitimately kill you, or the wielder.
Now, he COULD have used the force to push her away, but when you're holding weapons that are as destructive as lightsabers, you have to hurt the other person in order to protect yourself. Now put yourself in Luke's position. If this were to happen to you, would you hurt this girl when you know that'll only delay the inevitable, or just tell her the story and get it over with? It was her persistence that he lost to, not her skill.
It's really obvious here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyIz3-FYpXc
Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12You did don’t deny it you loon. Snoke is extremely powerful aka the best we have seen thus far. Your bias clouds your judgment.
I don’t recall Ming you, none the less what’s this have to do with the fact you’re a moron n can’t prove anything you claim?You cried non stop in the other Snoke forum because I proved Snoke wasn’t that powerful...forgive me isn’t.
Originally posted by Darth ThorSnoke is my favorite character quit obsessing over my preferences. You’re so weird.
^ Only in your head.You jumped the wrong wagon again 😂
Btw youve not given a single legit argument for Snoke or Reys power in your previous post to me. And if you cant be bothered making your posts quoatable then I certainly cant be bothered responding to your essay full of butt hurt drivel.
Luke’s own words make it clear how powerful she is. Her actions against Luke also show how formidable she can be. She did take out quite a few of the praetorian guards. Concede away. Kurk’s posts didn’t show up either but I made it work. You’re a very lazy and stupid man. You don’t even care about Disney Star Wars just let it all go. You’re not a fan you’re a traitor. Just go rewatch the older ones you crybaby.
Originally posted by Zentrex
Wait for more Boba stuff to come out, then? I don't doubt he'll regain his glory.Luke went out pathetically? He just ended projecting himself from half the galaxy away onto a planet with a convincing projection. He also gave himself to the force, like Kenobi and Yoda. That, in and of itself, is an impressive feat. He's a jedi. He doesn't go out with destruction. He uses the force for knowledge and defense. If that's your idea of "pathetic", then you need to reconsider your idea of power.
When I said it was his "time to go", I was referring to him giving himself to the force, the way Yoda and Obi-Wan did. When he took the impact of projecting himself, he recovered, got back on the rock, and then gave himself away. It's very obvious.
https://youtu.be/sU2Uja7RIBs?t=8mWell, what makes you doubt Vader would have had that problem? When have we seen him force choke that many soldiers that are trying to attack him? It's been made clear through the movies that it's hard for a force user to focus attacks like that when they're being attacked, much less from all directions. He couldn't force choke all of the rebel soldiers in rogue one, and they were just common people like you and me. These preaoritans are made for fighting lightsaber dueling enemies.
If you're applying your own sense of logic, then I ask you why Vader didn't just force choke Luke in Episode 4 instead of walking towards him as the door closed? Or catch him with the force when he jumped off cloud city in Episode 5?
But till then Bane is superior
He died from a force illusion...sounds weak to me. Legends Luke created solid ones, even Plagueis created ones that fooled Sidious. Yoda died of old age n Obi Wan let himself be struct down...not the same thing as dying over a lame display. Snoke freaking connected Rey n Kylo over miles away, he smacked around hux over light years...didn’t die from it.
It depends on the force user...also several times in the canon cartoon has a dooku and even Assajj Ventress force choked people during fights, dooku was using five lightening during his, Sidious was throwing around pods during his fight. The on,y thing that hinders someone from using the force is them not being able to focus.
He has smacked around imperial guards with the five, why not these guys...they couldn’t even beat rey n kylo...don’t get me wrong they’re powerful, if it was rey or kylo alone I think they’d be dead.
Lol...in the canon comic he killed like a few hundred rebel soldiers with the force by simultaneously pulling the pins from there grenades...
Maybe cause he was trying to turn his SON n not kill him? Are you really that dense? Did you miss the part where Vader started using the force to own Luke then cut his hand off?
Originally posted by Zentrex
Luke did indeed NOT lose to Rey. He was basically just toying with her despite being 40 years older than her, and not having fought for decades. This was until she pulled a lightsaber on him. That'd be like if you were swordfighting and the other person pulled out a handgun, or maybe an activated blowtorch is a better example. Something that can legitimately kill you, or the wielder.Now, he COULD have used the force to push her away, but when you're holding weapons that are as destructive as lightsabers, you have to hurt the other person in order to protect yourself. Now put yourself in Luke's position. If this were to happen to you, would you hurt this girl when you know that'll only delay the inevitable, or just tell her the story and get it over with? It was her persistence that he lost to, not her skill.
It's really obvious here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyIz3-FYpXc
Where do you come up with this shit? Can you cite evidence he was toying with her? Was he toying with her when he got knocked on his ass and lost to kylo? Grand master my ass. A staff is better then a light saber? Lol
Whatttt, how many times has a Jedi forced pushed someone without harm, where are you getting this crap? If I was Luke I’d have owned her, doesn’t mean I’d have to hurt her.
Originally posted by ZentrexPerfect. No reason to debate this subject any further. 👆
Alright, fine. I'll give you this: There is no reason to believe that Snoke's raw power is necessarily greater than that of Palpatine, because his feats can't be measured against Palpatine's (or most other characters).
Originally posted by Galan007
Perfect. No reason to debate this subject any further. 👆
But before you tackle these reasons, please respond the post that my quote that you used is from.
Originally posted by ZentrexWhy on earth should I 'tackle' your personal opinion regarding Snoke's theoretical standing in the force hierarchy? For the purposes of this discussion, I don't care what you *think* about his powers -- I am(and have only been) talking about what we can actually *prove* via quantifiable, and canon, feats/accolades up to this point.
I was referring to feats. Not all logic. Common sense which dictates Disney's descisions, what Andy Serkis has said (Though I know you don't believe it, he's gotten Snoke's backstory from Abrams and Johnson, so I put faith into it), and the original concepts for Snoke being uber godlike users of the Force, and the list goes on.But before you tackle these reasons, please respond the post that my quote that you used is from.
That said, not one shred of legitimate evidence(and actors' opinions are NOT canonical evidence, btw, so please stop acting like they're gospel) suggests that Snoke is more powerful overall than Palpatine... Let alone the most powerful force-user to ever exist. 'Nuff said.
Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
But till then Bane is superiorHe died from a force illusion...sounds weak to me. Legends Luke created solid ones, even Plagueis created ones that fooled Sidious. Yoda died of old age n Obi Wan let himself be struct down...not the same thing as dying over a lame display. Snoke freaking connected Rey n Kylo over miles away, he smacked around hux over light years...didn’t die from it.
It depends on the force user...also several times in the canon cartoon has a dooku and even Assajj Ventress force choked people during fights, dooku was using five lightening during his, Sidious was throwing around pods during his fight. The on,y thing that hinders someone from using the force is them not being able to focus.
He has smacked around imperial guards with the five, why not these guys...they couldn’t even beat rey n kylo...don’t get me wrong they’re powerful, if it was rey or kylo alone I think they’d be dead.
Lol...in the canon comic he killed like a few hundred rebel soldiers with the force by simultaneously pulling the pins from there grenades...
Maybe cause he was trying to turn his SON n not kill him? Are you really that dense? Did you miss the part where Vader started using the force to own Luke then cut his hand off?
Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Where do you come up with this shit? Can you cite evidence he was toying with her? Was he toying with her when he got knocked on his ass and lost to kylo? Grand master my ass. A staff is better then a light saber? LolWhatttt, how many times has a Jedi forced pushed someone without harm, where are you getting this crap? If I was Luke I’d have owned her, doesn’t mean I’d have to hurt her.
I can't seem to properly quote you for some reason, so bear with the quickquotes.
He did not die from the force illusion, what the video I linked again. He gave himself to the force.
And I don't know why you keep comparing it to legends. In legends, it was first introduced as a video game mechanic, thus it had to be relatively easy to pull off. This has been one of the most powerful displays of power in the new canon, especially because Luke projected himself over LIGHTYEARS. I wouldn't be surprised if it's beyond Yoda's abilities in the new canon.
Yoda died sick and weak, and you tell me his death was stronger? Obi Wan did not let himself be struct down, he gave himself to the force before Vader's lightsaber made contact. You either don't know your star wars, or you're lying to me to prove a point.
The only people we've ever seen in the new canon accomplish ANYTHING from lightyears away are Luke, Snoke, and Palpatine. Luke projected himself in a convincing manner, Snoke created a bond between two people and then transported not only matter but the people themselves (almost). Palpatine choked Dooku and removed Ezra's handcuffs. Is this being put into perspective now?
Dooku and Ventress were fighting soldiers trained to fight droids, not guards armored and trained to fight force users. We've seen Rey use the mind trick and Kylo use the choke, suspend animation, put people to sleep, etc. in the force awakens when fighting non-force users, so it makes sense that he'd be able to it in a fight. Don't even compare them to Sidious, and I imagine having 8 people with deadly weapons trying to kill you from all directions is a pretty good distraction.
If Snoke's feats can't be compared, then nor can the preatorians'.
And pulling pins from grenades is a lot easier than penetrating the defenses of 8 trained fighters as they wield weapons against you. Also, Vader's stronger than most PT jedi.
I was referring this scene:
https://youtu.be/sq51w34Hg9I
Vader doesn't yet know that Luke is his son.
And in Empire, he just let Luke fall instead of catching him with the force. For all he knew Luke was hurtling towards his death, so if he wanted to save him, he would have caught him.
Do I really have to spell this out for you? In the scene I linked, Luke's face is unstrained, his back is straight, he evades every move Rey makes towards him, and even adds insult to injury by hitting her over the head. Rey, on the other hand, is strained, is trying VERY hard to get a hit on him, and is clearly motivated to get some answers out of him, yet she lands not a single hit.
He gets scared when she pulls a lightsaber on him and trips, though he saves himself with the force, and does not attack, though he can
He lost to Kylo because he didn't even know the kid was awake and was distracted by the thought that he'd almost considered shanking him in his sleep.
And I never said a staff is better than a saber. I said the opposite. Put yourself in Luke's position. If you have a stick and your apprentice who is REALLY determined to get answers from you has a lightsaber and attacks you with it, what do you do?
option 1. Pin her to the ground with the force and tell her "bad girl!" like she's a dog?
option 2. beat her bloody?
option 3. defend yourself as best you can (when the other person has a lightsaber, and you don't, it's difficult to defend yourself without hurting them)
option 4. Just give up and tell her what happened. (You're a pacifist, after all)
Where is this source from? Bro..it was a stupid illusion that did nothing more then distract kylo, it’s obvious by his loses to kylo n rey he wasn’t as powerful as Vader
Where’s it say Obi Wan gave himself to the force, he said if you strike me down I will become more powerful then you can imagine (or something like that lol). Yoda died and became one with the force, what’s your point. Snoke already displayed feats across light years so I imagine Yoda wouldn’t have died like a punk...like Luke
I don’t recall Snoke or Palpatine dying from their feats...lol thus Luke must not have been in their level. But you’re the one comparing them not me lol.
Dooku has used force choke during battle has he not, as well as Ventress, so why wouldn’t Vader.
So you’re saying Vader can’t just force choke eight human guards even though he can force lift two imperial guards...lol