The Silver Surfer Vs. Graviton

Originally posted by operator616
I disagree, i just referenced an example where he was being choked by warrior zero. Sometimes he does good sometimes he doesn't. Wasn't he also unable to resist a black hole in Galactus the devourer?

I actually never got the impression that surfer was the gravity master that you're making him out to be. But im open to change my mind.

Bran is making shiet up. He doesn't even read surfer.

Abhi is the real surfer expert.

Originally posted by operator616
I disagree, i just referenced an example where he was being choked by warrior zero. Sometimes he does good sometimes he doesn't. Wasn't he also unable to resist a black hole in Galactus the devourer?

I actually never got the impression that surfer was the gravity master that you're making him out to be. But im open to change my mind.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/97299/1926964-galactusthedevourer217yj3.jpg

Consider your mind changed.

I think the above post is an end thread and end argument post from Phil.

Enough said, Graviton is not Trans. /end

Originally posted by operator616
I disagree, i just referenced an example where he was being choked by warrior zero. Sometimes he does good sometimes he doesn't. Wasn't he also unable to resist a black hole in Galactus the devourer?

I actually never got the impression that surfer was the gravity master that you're making him out to be. But im open to change my mind.

He fought inside a black hole in that series without his board... probably not the best feat to say that he did bad against gravity.
He flies through suns all the time. Korvac magnetized his entire body so he became the core of a planet. Various black hole and worm hole things too.

His lowest feats are getting sucked into a black hole and the Warrior Zero one off the top of my head in respect to gravity. Not exactly the worst.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
The gravitational pull of a planet around his throat is either the entire force concentrated on his throat which is who knows, or just the normal pull of the planet. Which would question how he even exits planets. Either way, he was holding back.

He fought inside a black hole in that series without his board... probably not the best feat to say that he did bad against gravity.
He flies through suns all the time. Korvac magnetized his entire body so he became the core of a planet. Various black hole and worm hole things too.

His lowest feats are getting sucked into a black hole and the Warrior Zero one off the top of my head in respect to gravity. Not exactly the worst.

Originally posted by operator616
Why are you showing me oversized scans that i have referenced myself? Does this somehow prove your point?

Scans are exactly the right size to not break this thread and for everyone to see how clearly wrong you are and continue to be.

Originally posted by operator616
Surfer was getting choked until Dawn saved him: https://imgur.com/a/eymsbut

🙁 Dawn didn't save him, Surfer could had easily turn intangible or blast him, or just transmute his armor like he did to Nebula. This is a perfect example of character forgetting their powerset to advance a story. Here to make Dawn relevant when she is surely not. Someone with cosmic awareness needs an earthling to tell them how to use their powers lol. And furthermore in a forum Surfer will use his powers.

Originally posted by operator616
Choke on that. 😂

Choke on what? That Surfer despite having the force of an entire planet around his throat was able to resist it w/o any lasting damage and still able to talk with Dawn. And you know still able to use his powers. So, how exactly is that going to help Graviton. Seems like you are the one choking on your own foot in mouth.

Originally posted by operator616
this was my exact point. Surfer was getting beaten in the first encounter but beat warrior zero/one in their second encounter. It was exactly my argument. That surfer has highs and lows as anybody with basic knowledge knows.

You are stating obvious things like it means something. When a character is first introduce they typically have a good showing in the beginning. It was clear to anyone who read the whole comic and their subsequent meetings that Warrior One was no match for a serious Surfer as evident by Surfer one-shotting him after Surfer tried everything to avoid the conflict including faking defeat. Every character has highs and lows how is that important here at all?

Originally posted by operator616
Uh, beat him? Just like, y'know, Medusa/Karnak KO'd him? Just like Runner beat him? Just like Obliterator beat him? Just like Morg beat him? Just like WM thor beat him? Just like random space pirates beat him? Just like a random meteor chunk has KO'd him (several times)? just like random SHIELD agents with some stark tech KO'd him? Just like HE has beaten him?

Should i go on or is that enough? But please continue mentioning his high end feats.

Playing the low ball game hint ironman hint is the first sign of a terrible and losing argument. So you just going to ignore context or bring up characters like Runner who would easily blitz and beat Graviton in a standard forum setting.

Originally posted by operator616
Surfer himself admitted that creating a black hole is never his go to tactic anyway in Silver surfer: In thy name. And Graviton can increase his density to infinity as well.

The point that you keep forgetting is that Surfer doesn't have to beat Graviton in gravity manipulation although he can. He only has to defend against it, and he has plenty of feats doing that. Meanwhile Graviton has no answer for Surfer's standard blitz, or mental attacks, or getting trapped in his board, or energy drain, lol or any number of things it is so many.

Originally posted by Supermutant
Scans are exactly the right size to not break this thread and for everyone to see how clearly wrong you are and continue to be.

🙁 Dawn didn't save him, Surfer could had easily turn intangible or blast him, or just transmute his armor like he did to Nebula. This is a perfect example of character forgetting their powerset to advance a story. Here to make Dawn relevant when she is surely not. Someone with cosmic awareness needs an earthling to tell them how to use their powers lol. And furthermore in a forum Surfer will use his powers.

Choke on what? That Surfer despite having the force of an entire planet around his throat was able to resist it w/o any lasting damage and still able to talk with Dawn. And you know still able to use his powers. So, how exactly is that going to help Graviton. Seems like you are the one choking on your own foot in mouth.

You are stating obvious things like it means something. We a character is first introduce they typically have a good showing in the beginning. It was clear to anyone who read the whole comic and their subsequent meetings that Warrior One was no match for a serious Surfer as evident by Surfer one-shotting him after Surfer tried everything to avoid the conflict including faking defeat. Every character has highs and lows how is that important here at all?

Playing the low ball game hint ironman hint is the first sign of a terrible and losing argument. So you just going to ignore context or bring up characters like Runner who would easily blitz Graviton in a standard forum setting.

The point that you keep forgetting is that Surfer doesn't have to beat Graviton in gravity manipulation although he can. He only has to defend against it, and he has plenty of feats doing that. Meanwhile Graviton has no answer for Surfer's standard blitz, or mental attacks, or getting trapped in his board, or energy drain, lol or any number of things it so many.

this is apples and oranges. and at lol abhi's somehow trying to conflate ss and orion, like saying since ss beats graviton, so orion would, right? because their power sets are so close? good lord abhi. and i never said he was trans, so get your baiting right at least, yes? he is def high herald though.

graviton's power can and has proven to have planetary range. ss likewise has controled elements on a planetary scale. unfortunately for graviton, ss has a much larger array of abilities to fall back on than orion does--unless you count his miracle box of course which apparently is the answer to every battle he'll be in from now on. 👆 tp is certainly an option for ss. could ss simply counter his gravity control? no, not imo. but could graviton counter matter manipulation? not that i've seen. maybe his shields would hold up, but impossible to say for sure. if ss fought by charging and blasting, he'd def be in trouble, like any herald would. but his more exotic powers would be very difficult for graviton to counter, based on what i've seen of him.

someone like loki would also be a huge problem for graviton in a forum setting. graviton's powerset is more than sufficient to beat most, and he is absolutely a true team wrecker (unlike some that are called that) but certain power sets are simply difficult to counter, especially in a forum setting. ss def has the means and power set to take him out, though he would have to be smart about it.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
The gravitational pull of a planet around his throat is either the entire force concentrated on his throat which is who knows, or just the normal pull of the planet. Which would question how he even exits planets. Either way, he was holding back.

He fought inside a black hole in that series without his board... probably not the best feat to say that he did bad against gravity.
He flies through suns all the time. Korvac magnetized his entire body so he became the core of a planet. Various black hole and worm hole things too.

His lowest feats are getting sucked into a black hole and the Warrior Zero one off the top of my head in respect to gravity. Not exactly the worst.

Fair enough. I can see this being a compelling case.

Originally posted by operator616
Fair enough. I can see this being a compelling case.

graviton is capable of concentrated microgravity bursts though, so he CAN focus his power into tiny places. but yeah, ss's power set is something that graviton--and most--would have a difficult time countering if used fully.

Originally posted by leonidas
graviton is capable of concentrated microgravity bursts though, so he CAN focus his power into tiny places. but yeah, ss's power set is something that graviton--and most--would have a difficult time countering if used fully.

Truthfully, If Thor went esoteric on him he would struggle particularly if the setting involved no casualties to innocents. Thor Could just attack from space or battlefield remove etc. Would Gravitons shields survive a God Blast? Who knows Thor's best Space Cheese feats like Surfer's put him above Graviton in my opinion. Thor also can survive in Space, Graviton has to sleep. so even if he takes a bubble of air with him if Thor removes him into Space or destroys the planet he is on Graviton dies.

Norrin wins, with ease.

Originally posted by leonidas
graviton is capable of concentrated microgravity bursts though, so he CAN focus his power into tiny places. but yeah, ss's power set is something that graviton--and most--would have a difficult time countering if used fully.

That's why I'm saying he's got a good track record against it. At the very least it affords him more defense than Butterfingered Thor with his cape and whacker.

Plus it's not like he completely blew Thor out too. It's just not a power he should be as vulnerable to as Thor, not that he'd be completely immune.

Hulk losing to it is surprising though. Guess that's why it happened off panel so they didn't have to explain it.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
That's why I'm saying he's got a good track record against it. At the very least it affords him more defense than Butterfingered Thor with his cape and whacker.

Plus it's not like he completely blew Thor out too. It's just not a power he should be as vulnerable to as Thor, not that he'd be completely immune.

Hulk losing to it is surprising though. Guess that's why it happened off panel so they didn't have to explain it.

If it would be pure 'hey, how limp-wristed is Thor/Hulk compared to Surfer physically?', I'd also be firmly on the 'eh, relative portrayals', because Surfer is not obviously physically stronger than those two. But he has his ace 'power protection' in the pocket. So if it's a differentiation like that, and not 'hey, he is so strong and durable that he's chilling in a black hole so he has infinite durability' bullshit, I'd maybe switch. I dunno. I remember thinking about this a few years ago, too, when I wanted to make Graviton vs x threads.

^ So i decided to recheck the Galactus the devourer instance as well.

Surfer was unable to resist the gravitational pull of a black hole but only because his power was divided, his powers did enable Alicia to escape. That's what i was misremembering and that's where lies the proof of him being able to resist gravity (among others mentioned). Because him fighting red shift inside of a black hole is proof of durability not gravitational resistance.

For example, if surfer wasn't able to resist the black hole yet fight inside yet, we can make the claim that Graviton is able to pin him down but not crush him. But regardless, that is not the case. I just thought it best clarified.

I have to be honest, I'm thinking of giving Graviton the win. I'm too adamant about not using 'cosmic' cheese feats - otherwise, well, somebody like Superman, Green Lanterns, Sufer etc. who've walked through black holes would just simply plow through all of Graviton's attacks. And on the other hand we have Thor [and a shitload of others] being helpless against him. I can't reconcile that, as it would make Thor quite the b itch [not that he's not, but still]. The only thing holding me back is that it's such a specific ability, and not just 'general' durability. It's like saying that Human Torch can fry a Green Lantern who flies through suns. So it's, like so many times, relative portrayals vs cheese showings.

given graviton's feats, your stance is something i can totally get behind, honestly. just that given the scope of ss's powers it's hard to dismiss his chances in a forum setting. the black hole feat def adds credence to ss's ability to deal with graviton's abilities but the more focused nature may make things different? i dunno. or maybe a focused microgravity pulse into ss's brain?

i certainly don't have any issue with anyone saying graviton can beat him, just seems less likely than many others who lack the complete versatility that ss does.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
The gravitational pull of a planet around his throat is either the entire force concentrated on his throat which is who knows, or just the normal pull of the planet. Which would question how he even exits planets. Either way, he was holding back.

He fought inside a black hole in that series without his board... probably not the best feat to say that he did bad against gravity.
He flies through suns all the time. Korvac magnetized his entire body so he became the core of a planet. Various black hole and worm hole things too.

His lowest feats are getting sucked into a black hole and the Warrior Zero one off the top of my head in respect to gravity. Not exactly the worst.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer gets owned by a black hole

"Almost crushed to nothingness".

😂

Koed by a black hole again.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6101113-2425527315-RCO01.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6101114-4560853732-RCO01.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6101115-4938731777-RCO01.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6101116-3034425536-RCO01.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6101117-2265725141-RCO01.jpg

Koed again by a black hole.