The Silver Surfer Vs. Graviton

Originally posted by Supermutant
😑 Just more failed lowballing attempts and fake news. Surfer took a Galactus life force siphoning kill beam powered by 6 infinity gems and channeled through 6 planets. The fact that he was able to deflect that kind of attack is nothing but impressive. And Surfer was much closer to the sun going nova then the Elders, and they must certainly felt its impact.

"His silvery skin is reflecting the attack".

Not deflect, reflect.

Neither the elders or Surfer were affected by the sun.

lol now you have move on to lowballing the Elders. Misrepresent, then lowball and deflect when caught, wash, rinse, repeat, in most of the threads you post in. But thanks for reminding everyone that Surfer can amp out of the energies from a black hole which is pretty substantial.

Eh, right. So his showings in black holes are invalidated because he is amped inside black holes?

Anyway I'm pretty sure you have always seen these scans but since you want to fake ignorance here you go enjoy.

First let's start with [b]Surfer creating a black hole just from a casual discharge of energy.

https://i.imgur.com/0QSeZbn.jpg

Right, that's your criteria for going inside a black hole?

And here is the upgrade from Galactus where he states "grant you new power."

https://i.imgur.com/svUImhL.jpg [/B]

Which Surfer denied?

The recap of the issue stated that Galactus restored Surfer's power. Not upgraded him.

Abhilegend. In Slott's run Surfer also bound Euphoria's (a living planet) consciousness to one spot and molecularity nullified his/its sound air molecules. When he was caught in that time loop fighting against huge alien armadas he also warped space on a huge scale to transport the newhaven inhabitants.

Back in v1 -- the same series where he was continually stated to be depowered because of that Galactus downgrade -- he basically erased overlord from existence by going back in time and preventing him from being born. At the beginning of v3 -- where again, he was iirc slightly depowered even after Galactus barrier instance -- he matter manip. obliterator's weapons, and another one of his villains later on as well as nebula's armor toward the end of the series. He resorted to astral attacks when physical failed against a creature in, in thy name series. He was using matter manip. pretty frequent in the recent defenders runs. I actually have a few other things in mind but not too keen on mentioning them since i have to go back and check.

So he's more versatile than Orion, unless, that is, we're counting the times orion matter manip. his face to battle. That last part is sarcasm, btw.

Originally posted by operator616
Abhilegend. In Slott's run Surfer also bound Euphoria's (a living planet) consciousness to one spot and molecularity nullified his/its sound air molecules. When he was caught in that time loop fighting against huge alien armadas he also warped space on a huge scale to transport the newhaven inhabitants.

Right because when Orion fought a living planet (Mogo), he just ignored its most potent attack and incapacitated him.

When Surfer fought Ego (an actual living planet that matters), Surfer was koed by just falling on its surface.

So Surfer needs versatility Because he isn't going to win without it. Orion doesn't because he can just waltz through most.

Back in v1 -- the same series where he was continually stated to be depowered because of that Galactus downgrade -- he basically erased overlord from existence by going back in time and preventing him from being born.

He was using matter manip. pretty frequent in the recent defenders runs. I actually have a few other things in mind but not too keen on mentioning them since i have to go back and check.

So he's more versatile than Orion, unless, that is, we're counting the times orion matter manip. his face to battle. That last part is sarcasm, btw.

Right, you're just showcasing Surfer needs to be versatile because he just isn't powerful enough to beat most characters Orion would destroy straight up.

Good job.

hysterical

Ladies and gentleman, i present to you an entire post made up of pure abhi strawman. With a dip of butthurt to go along the way.

Jesus christ, abhilegend. You were the one who asked for versatility as opposed to energy/physical attacks. And yet when i show you exactly what you were asking you go on a rant how Orion's energy projection and physical stats are superior.

My god, you actually haven't escaped from bizarro world all the way back from the previous debate, have you?

Originally posted by operator616
hysterical

Ladies and gentleman, i present to you an entire post made up of pure abhi strawman. With a dip of butthurt to go along the way.

Jesus christ, abhilegend. You were the one who asked for versatility as opposed to energy/physical attacks. And yet when i show you exactly what you were asking you go on a rant how Orion's energy projection and physical stats are superior.

My god, you actually haven't escaped from bizarro world all the way back from the previous debate, have you?

I read it like that as well. He did a complete switch of the argument just to find a way to discredit Surfer.

Originally posted by operator616
hysterical

Ladies and gentleman, i present to you an entire post made up of pure abhi strawman. With a dip of butthurt to go along the way.

Jesus christ, abhilegend. You were the one who asked for versatility as opposed to energy/physical attacks. And yet when i show you exactly what you were asking you go on a rant how Orion's energy projection and physical stats are superior.

You did most of the work. Orion has plenty of versatility feats, it's just that those are not required like Surfer needs his versatility feats.

My god, you actually haven't escaped from bizarro world all the way back from the previous debate, have you?

😂

Right, have you?

One thing all this proves is Graviton is not trans.

Originally posted by abhilegend

"His silvery skin is reflecting the attack".

Not deflect, reflect.

Neither the elders or Surfer were affected by the sun.

Eh, right. So his showings in black holes are invalidated because he is amped inside black holes?

Right, that's your criteria for going inside a black hole?

Which Surfer denied?

The recap of the issue stated that Galactus restored Surfer's power. Not upgraded him.

lol what is your argument? That Surfer is currently at the same power he was in his early appearances when he could barely fly without his board. Its clear that Surfer has increased in power since then like many other characters from their beginnings.

It's also clear that Surfer didn't turn down the upgrade, he denied Galactus taking away his remorse which he directly stated. And even Ravenous who had previously considered himself Surfer's equal in power, mentions repeatedly that Galactus changed Surfer for the better. And asking him what did Galactus do to him and how, what have the Surfer become. Also its clear in the story that Galactus upgraded him to help fight against those two enemies of Galactus who were close to the big G in power, Aegis and Tenebrus

https://imgur.com/a/haosHpi

So again what point are you trying to make besides lowballing?

Even in his early appearances Surfer was able to travel through exploding supernovas.

http://i.imgur.com/JAjQw9q.png

http://i.imgur.com/lZ0n50N.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KUACx2C.jpg

And here he makes an anti-gravity shield against a black hole.

http://i.imgur.com/Fxjieia.jpg

Originally posted by Supermutant
lol what is your argument? That Surfer is currently at the same power he was in his early appearances when he could barely fly without his board. Its clear that Surfer has increased in power since then like many other characters from their beginnings.

Yet still has trouble with Thing and looks peer to Thor at best.

Relative power level wise Surfer hasn't grown anywhere.

It's also clear that Surfer didn't turn down the upgrade, he denied Galactus taking away his remorse which he directly stated. And even Ravenous who had previously considered himself Surfer's equal in power, mentions repeatedly that Galactus changed Surfer for the better. And asking him what did Galactus do to him and how, what have the Surfer become. Also its clear in the story that Galactus upgraded him to help fight against those two enemies of Galactus who were close to the big G in power, Aegis and Tenebrus

https://imgur.com/a/haosHpi

Ravenous looked about equal to Surfer even after "the upgrade" until Surfer killed his currs.

How is it clear? Surfer almost died in four hits from Tenebrous and Aegis.

So again what point are you trying to make besides lowballing?

What lowballing?

Even in his early appearances Surfer was able to travel through exploding supernovas.

http://i.imgur.com/JAjQw9q.png

http://i.imgur.com/lZ0n50N.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KUACx2C.jpg

Nowhere did he travel through an exploding supernova. In the first scene the exploding gasses caught up with him, in second he blatantly escaped the supernova and in third he was just surfing the blast and wasn't hit by it.

And here he makes an anti-gravity shield against a black hole.

http://i.imgur.com/Fxjieia.jpg

That's his sole good showing against a black hole. Most of the time he is helpless against a black hole.

Surfer beats classic Graviton, who was basically a gravity-based equivalent of Magneto, and on his level.

Surfer can't match Graviton who suspended all of Earth's heroes at the same time.

No need to go on further Abhy, so just a simple question. Do you believe current Surfer is at the same level of power from his early appearances as shown by your scans? Yes or no will suffice.

Originally posted by Supermutant
No need to go on further Abhy, so just a simple question. Do you believe current Surfer is at the same level of power from his early appearances as shown by your scans? Yes or no will suffice.

Silver Surfer has advanced so far that he has say in the soul.
I don't remember what issue it was that he achieved such a feat but I remember reading it quite some time ago.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He is on the same level in hierarchy of marvel top tiers as before.

not the question I asked but whatever

ermm

Originally posted by Philosophía
I have to be honest, I'm thinking of giving Graviton the win. I'm too adamant about not using 'cosmic' cheese feats - otherwise, well, somebody like Superman, Green Lanterns, Sufer etc. who've walked through black holes would just simply plow through all of Graviton's attacks. And on the other hand we have Thor [and a shitload of others] being helpless against him. I can't reconcile that, as it would make Thor quite the b itch [not that he's not, but still]. The only thing holding me back is that it's such a specific ability, and not just 'general' durability. It's like saying that Human Torch can fry a Green Lantern who flies through suns. So it's, like so many times, relative portrayals vs cheese showings.

If I could "like", (thumbs up or whatever other social media symbol of agreement is out there) this post I would.

Any who. In questions like these (power set vs portrayal) I always ask myself if said character would be written as replicating a feat on the par of said other character. Would Surfer be portrayed as coming to Earth and freezing all of its most powerful heroes and rendering them helpless? I have trouble seeing that. That's just me though.