The Silver Surfer Vs. Graviton

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not so fast Brandon.

Koed by a black hole again.

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Koed again by a black hole.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6101130-9490308436-lugExQpDVQ0q9bgwuWsJcA27N4N7E_j9qj3EgbWzmbBl4QYa0oebZRmePhOtMgbi3LEDEpBOZKSc%3Ds1600

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first, fix your broken links. second, surfer survived a black hole in the red shift instance which Philo mentioned

Originally posted by leonidas
this is apples and oranges. and at lol abhi's somehow trying to conflate ss and orion, like saying since ss beats graviton, so orion would, right? because their power sets are so close? good lord abhi. and i never said he was trans, so get your baiting right at least, yes? he is def high herald though.

graviton's power can and has proven to have planetary range. ss likewise has controled elements on a planetary scale. unfortunately for graviton, ss has a much larger array of abilities to fall back on than orion does--unless you count his miracle box of course which apparently is the answer to every battle he'll be in from now on. 👆 tp is certainly an option for ss. could ss simply counter his gravity control? no, not imo. but could graviton counter matter manipulation? not that i've seen. maybe his shields would hold up, but impossible to say for sure. if ss fought by charging and blasting, he'd def be in trouble, like any herald would. but his more exotic powers would be very difficult for graviton to counter, based on what i've seen of him.

someone like loki would also be a huge problem for graviton in a forum setting. graviton's powerset is more than sufficient to beat most, and he is absolutely a true team wrecker (unlike some that are called that) but certain power sets are simply difficult to counter, especially in a forum setting. ss def has the means and power set to take him out, though he would have to be smart about it.

No bias there leo, none of it.

Also this is always lulzworthy.

This is still the funniest though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not so fast Brandon.

Koed by a black hole again.

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Koed again by a black hole.

Right. That elder story was a black hole fest which i failed to mention.

I still think some people are failing to differentiate between a black hole's pull and a black hole's crushing force. The pull is gravity resistance, while the crushing is not. Because it's not unlike surviving deep water pressures. It's basically forces acting on you to crush you, while the pull is an attractive force which pins you down. And that's Graviton's go to tactic, he holds people in his gravitational grip.

Which is why i think Bran's Korvac example is the best one here and what drove the point home, because in that instance Korvac pinned Surfer basically into a planet's core which surfer was able to resist. That's exactly what Graviton's first attack would be like.

@abhi: i'm not sure what isn't getting through to you regarding orion, but you REALLY seem to take my opinion on that subject very personally and are acting like a butthurt d!ck. in the VAST majority of his fights orion doesn't use his MB like a miracle machine ffs. why is that hard to get your head around? i also said tp is an option, if there is proof tp works through his shields. i also said if ss fights by going pew-pew he'd likely lose this. i'm sorry if i hurt your feelings saying graviton beats orion but i'm sure you'll get over it. some day.

@op: the crushing force IS gravity at work in the singularity. there really isn't any difference. a normal person would be stretched by the toes first then as they continued to fall become a piece of spaghetti until there was nothing left WELL before they reached the singularity. or the theory goes, of course. there is a definite crushing force though through the black hole.

there is some support the ss can and can't handle those types of extreme pressure though he is considered more powerful post annihilation so there is that. i'm also unsure if graviton is able to generate that level of force. if he can, he could def win this battle though again, defending against matter manip is a tall order.

Originally posted by leonidas
@abhi: i'm not sure what isn't getting through to you regarding orion, but you REALLY seem to take my opinion on that subject very personally and are acting like a butthurt d!ck. in the VAST majority of his fights orion doesn't use his MB like a miracle machine ffs. why is that hard to get your head around? i also said tp is an option, if there is proof tp works through his shields. i also said if ss fights by going pew-pew he'd likely lose this. i'm sorry if i hurt your feelings saying graviton beats orion but i'm sure you'll get over it. some day.

But you are extending the olive branch to Surfer citing his versatility as to why he wins here when he acts like an idiot in most of his appearances as well.

So Surfer will use his versatility but Orion won't because of your arbitrary rules?

Originally posted by leonidas

@op: the crushing force IS gravity at work in the singularity. there really isn't any difference. a normal person would be stretched by the toes first then as they continued to fall become a piece of spaghetti until there was nothing left WELL before they reached the singularity. or the theory goes, of course. there is a definite crushing force though through the black hole.

They're not the same at all though.

Just refer to the red shift instance. Surfer gets near the singularity and is unable to resist the gravitational pull (yes, his powers were divided but that's beside the point here). And yet he was able to resist the black hole's crushing force while inside the event horizon. Despite the fact that as you get nearer a black hole, the gravitational force increases, so if he is unable to resist a gravitational pull from outside the horizon, he would definitely be unable to resist any pull inside of it. Unless we separate durability from gravitational resistance, that is. Which was clearly the case in that instance. The black hole was crushing him and not pulling him inwards (when he was at the center). Like i said, not unlike withstanding deep water pressures.

So basically, Surfer unable to resist the pull of a black hole could be used as proof that Graviton could pin him down, but not crush him because of durability.

abhi, it has more to do with the amount of times versatility is used. even in his most recent series which was only a few issues long, he used his power in some pretty crazy and creative ways. here, why don't you post scans of orion using his versatility in ways that would prove to be effective against graviton. ds tried showing some reverse polarity scan which...didn't make sense to me at all. if you're so hip on orion's versatility, show some on panel stuff that he's done that will translate to his beating graviton and i'll concede your point.

until then, my point stands. orion rarely--almost never--uses his MB as the plot device you're trying to say it is. and like i said in the other thread--if we DO take into account that it's a little miracle machine, then you better be prepared to say it would work exactly the same against every other character in dc, giving him a plot device power to beat everyone he come up against in the forum. can't have it both ways.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer gets owned by a black hole

"Almost crushed to nothingness".

😂

Typical way out of context scans from Abhy. 🙁

Right before going thru that black hole Surfer took a Galactus kill beam attack from the Elders of the Universe with the 6 infinity gems. This attacks designed to drain the life force of Galactus was also channeled through 6 planets. Surfer saved Nova in the process who was being torn apart from said attack. Nova at the direction of the Surfer caused the sun to go nova with created the black hole. A very impressive feat that Surfer was able to survive all of that happening in quick succession in his early less powerful appearances.

https://imgur.com/a/EuIBdVu

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not so fast Brandon.

Koed by a black hole again.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111332122/6101113-2425527315-RCO01.jpg
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Koed again by a black hole.

Again a weaken Surfer goes through a black hole that leads to a mystical universe. Not even the Elders or soul gems could travel through it, and yet all Surfer suffered was at best a quick temporary stun showed by your own scans.

https://imgur.com/WUFO8Qw

Your last misrepresentation is probably the most laughable as the Maurader was manipulating that black hole which caught Surfer unawares. But later Surfer was able to easily amp off of that same black hole. And defeat the Marauder by feeding him into his own black hole. lol

https://imgur.com/a/uRnV9MZ

I would go on specifically and debunk the rest of your old scans. But this will suffice for now. Surfer receive an upgrade during Annihilation, so just more evidence that current Surfer is more powerful than your early showings.

Thor and Orion would have a harder time with Graviton than Surfer. Surfer's powerset may give him a more discernable edge.

Originally posted by leonidas
abhi, it has more to do with the amount of times versatility is used. even in his most recent series which was only a few issues long, he used his power in some pretty crazy and creative ways. here, why don't you post scans of orion using his versatility in ways that would prove to be effective against graviton. ds tried showing some reverse polarity scan which...didn't make sense to me at all. if you're so hip on orion's versatility, show some on panel stuff that he's done that will translate to his beating graviton and i'll concede your point.

until then, my point stands. orion rarely--almost never--uses his MB as the plot device you're trying to say it is. and like i said in the other thread--if we DO take into account that it's a little miracle machine, then you better be prepared to say it would work exactly the same against every other character in dc, giving him a plot device power to beat everyone he come up against in the forum. can't have it both ways.

It not making sense to you does not make it false 😛

As for your point:

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.

You're best arguing that Surfer doesn't use his full abilities in every fight (black holes in the brain, trapped in boards etc) because of his nature. And that Orion loves fighting h2h.

But fact is, Orion will fight dirty.

Originally posted by operator616
Unless we separate durability from gravitational resistance, that is. Which was clearly the case in that instance. The black hole was crushing him and not pulling him inwards (when he was at the center). Like i said, not unlike withstanding deep water pressures.

So basically, Surfer unable to resist the pull of a black hole could be used as proof that Graviton could pin him down, but not crush him because of durability.

i get what you're saying now. that type of explanation is comic book science at it's best. but yeah, of course we'd separate his durability. not sure why you wouldn't...? 😕

i'd also think that he could resist the pull in most cases--technically all he'd need to do is accelerate ftl. i'm sure there is at least one instance of ss flying OUT of a black hole somewhere. maybe even in that red shift arc. he's also teleported in the past, so even if you think he could be pinned, not sure it would matter, or amount to much, regardless.

i did see something that indicates graviton IS capable of generating this level of force though. he did so when he created a worm hole. km showed it in the thor v graviton thread. tbh, that's more power than i even thought graviton had...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It not making sense to you does not make it false 😛

make what false? i just don't see him--except on extremely rare occasions--resorting to anything that would really help him take out graviton via MB. i don't see the polarity scan as being equivalent to the machine man scan for multiple reasons that i mentioned in the other thread. i mean graviton has controled em energy and reversed thor's lightning back on him if we want to go with enormously rare feats. he could simply control the beam and bend it away from him, or just re-reverse...?

and fighting dirty isn't going plot device powa! he just doesn't have the feats to indicate he would whip up some random power from MB that would let him win this. least not imo. and if you think that, then you have to conclude that those same plot device options should translate to every thread he's in, and moreso--to any thread with a new god who has a MB. i don't like that conclusion at all, as i don't think it reflects at all on the character, or the MB in general. that's all i'm saying. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
abhi, it has more to do with the amount of times versatility is used. even in his most recent series which was only a few issues long, he used his power in some pretty crazy and creative ways. here, why don't you post scans of orion using his versatility in ways that would prove to be effective against graviton. ds tried showing some reverse polarity scan which...didn't make sense to me at all. if you're so hip on orion's versatility, show some on panel stuff that he's done that will translate to his beating graviton and i'll concede your point.

Well yes he does has some good versatility feats but those are rarely against any named opponents.

He went against Warrior One/Zero, Thing, Galactus etc and hardly did anything other than punch or blast.

until then, my point stands. orion rarely--almost never--uses his MB as the plot device you're trying to say it is. and like i said in the other thread--if we DO take into account that it's a little miracle machine, then you better be prepared to say it would work exactly the same against every other character in dc, giving him a plot device power to beat everyone he come up against in the forum. can't have it both ways.

So does Surfer. Remind me what he did to Warrior One who used gravity manipulation?

Originally posted by Supermutant
Typical way out of context scans from Abhy. 🙁

Right before going thru that black hole [b]Surfer took a Galactus kill beam attack from the Elders of the Universe with the 6 infinity gems. This attacks designed to drain the life force of Galactus was also channeled through 6 planets. Surfer saved Nova in the process who was being torn apart from said attack. Nova at the direction of the Surfer caused the sun to go nova with created the black hole. A very impressive feat that Surfer was able to survive all of that happening in quick succession in his early less powerful appearances.

https://imgur.com/a/EuIBdVu

The ****? Surfer reflected the beams of the infinity gems by his silvery skin.

They were not hit by the Nova either, the sun was destroyed but the elders/surfer were far away to get affected by the supernova.

It's impressive that Surfer was about to get crushed by a black hole?

Again a weaken Surfer goes through a black hole that leads to a mystical universe. Not even the Elders or soul gems could travel through it, and yet all Surfer suffered was at best a quick temporary stun showed by your own scans.

https://imgur.com/WUFO8Qw

Elders sucked ass in that series, he was koed and needed Chaos/Order to traverse it in fear of getting killed.

Your last misrepresentation is probably the most laughable as the Maurader was manipulating that black hole which caught Surfer unawares. But later Surfer was able to easily amp off of that same black hole. And defeat the Marauder by feeding him into his own black hole. lol

https://imgur.com/a/uRnV9MZ

Right because getting koed from colliding with a blackberry hole is such a big feat.

And amping off is even bigger.

Sure man.

I would go on specifically and debunk the rest of your old scans. But this will suffice for now. Surfer receive an upgrade during Annihilation, so just more evidence that current Surfer is more powerful than your early showings. [/B]

Why don't you show us where Surfer receives an amp in Annihilation and what black holes he went into after that?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well yes he does has some good versatility feats but those are rarely against any named opponents.

He went against Warrior One/Zero, Thing, Galactus etc and hardly did anything other than punch or blast.

So does Surfer. Remind me what he did to Warrior One who used gravity manipulation?

geez, dude. he demonstrated a higher level of versatility in only afew issues than orion has in practically his career. if you don't get that, there's nothing i can do for you. he has a lot of showings where he blasts. you want to tell me his skin is shiny and the colour of silver too, while you're at it?

as for warrior one, not even sure why you asked. you know what happens in the end and will likely have some excuse to hand-wave it away:

https://imgur.com/a/EL8gjGa

i told you, show me all these times orion has used MB as a plot device to win against enemies he can't beat down or astro-force blast. i mean surely he has used it to wipe out someone really powerful at some point besides that tp showing? and if you do find 1 or 2 showings, compare them with the overwhelmingly large percentage of time he NEVER uses it that way. should be interesting to see all these plot device wins he has.

Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The ****? Surfer reflected the beams of the infinity gems by his silvery skin.

They were not hit by the Nova either, the sun was destroyed but the elders/surfer were far away to get affected by the supernova.

It's impressive that Surfer was about to get crushed by a black hole?

Elders sucked ass in that series, he was koed and needed Chaos/Order to traverse it in fear of getting killed.

Right because getting koed from colliding with a blackberry hole is such a big feat.

And amping off is even bigger.

Sure man.

Why don't you show us where Surfer receives an amp in Annihilation and what black holes he went into after that?

😑 Just more failed lowballing attempts and fake news. Surfer took a Galactus life force siphoning kill beam powered by 6 infinity gems and channeled through 6 planets. The fact that he was able to deflect that kind of attack is nothing but impressive. And Surfer was much closer to the sun going nova then the Elders, and they must certainly felt its impact.

lol now you have move on to lowballing the Elders. Misrepresent, then lowball and deflect when caught, wash, rinse, repeat, in most of the threads you post in. But thanks for reminding everyone that Surfer can amp out of the energies from a black hole which is pretty substantial.

Anyway I'm pretty sure you have always seen these scans but since you want to fake ignorance here you go enjoy.

First let's start with Surfer creating a black hole just from a casual discharge of energy.

https://i.imgur.com/0QSeZbn.jpg

And here is the upgrade from Galactus where he states "grant you new power."

https://i.imgur.com/svUImhL.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
geez, dude. he demonstrated a higher level of versatility in only afew issues than orion has in practically his career. if you don't get that, there's nothing i can do for you. he has a lot of showings where he blasts. you want to tell me his skin is shiny and the colour of silver too, while you're at it?

Yes and how much of it was it was used against someone in a fight?

as for warrior one, not even sure why you asked. you know what happens in the end and will likely have some excuse to hand-wave it away:

https://imgur.com/a/EL8gjGa

Right, punching him is such versatility.

You got me.

i told you, show me all these times orion has used MB as a plot device to win against enemies he can't beat down or astro-force blast. i mean surely he has used it to wipe out someone really powerful at some point besides that tp showing? and if you do find 1 or 2 showings, compare them with the overwhelmingly large percentage of time he NEVER uses it that way. should be interesting to see all these plot device wins he has.

Why would he need to do that again besides the time he has done that?

What kind of logic is that?