Superman; Strongest member in the League?

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Here's where I come back in.

It doesn't really. There are ways it could help via benching really ****ing fast like what shot putters do, but mostly it just will add mass which will add weight. I mean I guess it might help the guys who push their punches, but there's no real danger there.

The actual relevant strength is in muscles that are fairly hard to train. Look at internally rotating your hips for example to torque a punch. There's nothing that really targets that and squats don't help.

A bear hits hard because of how it knows how to throw it's weight around. Plus the weight of it's arm/paws. A bear benching more wouldn't help, but a bear that trained it's muscles to throw harder would. I don't know how you'd train those muscles in a bear though.

The muscles you use to throw punches aren't the most helpful in lifting weights and vice versa. Eddie Hall hits hard because he weighs the size of a large Mammoth. That doesn't mean Joe Cocksuck who smokes a lot of meth couldn't hit harder than him though (unlikely because of his background, but possible).

in a sort of similar vein, we have some very small guys who can throw a baseball upwards of a hundred mph, while the strongest guys and the world can't even come close. power from punches, like power to throw, is generated by the speed of various actions and has to do far more with torque and technique or mechanics than muscle mass. /shrug

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Also
If you put the strength of an hephalump into a person and assumed it stuck with no downsides (like ripping your arm off), that person would hit harder, but he would also be way faster. Which is something that comics ignore.
Hulk hits harder as he gets stronger but he doesn't exactly get faster. His feats make no sense. Same with Herc.

I don't think you can relate it to comics personally. It's just one of those comic things. I do think this is a more interesting take though.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
Captain Marvel is equal to Superman in physical strength and durability (I think Cap has the edge in durability) but Superman is definitely faster.

They are equals as per the showings.

Superman, The Strongest There Is.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Would you agree that that isn't relevant to human sized and weighted objects though?

And lifting in humans

And a human sized guy who can bench the earth, A: we kinda have to throw RL physics and biology out, and B: if not, then we have to consider that a guy who can bench the earth is gonna have pretty strong accessory muscles, the ones that are hard to train.

Certainly stronger than his punching of Batman, as the Bazzie Mark, says.

Yes,agree 100% that technique helps.

But muscles don't hamper, especially when you consider the JLA Al at least have some degree of fight training.

This is stupid. Of course strength and tech. matter. To say otherwise is silly. Again, strength is why there are weight classes. Of course tech. is important as well, but no amount of tech will help a child punch harder than a grown man. So silly. Also, Superman has ben specifically stated to be a boxer and to have been trained by Batman. Hence, he has proper tech. Hence, this debate its pointless. Also, in nu52 against H'el he punched so hard that the entire planet, including the watchtower in orbit, was shaking. That is a pretty nifty striking feat.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is he now?

Well, Superman on more than one occasion said him and Cap are equals.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But my point is that it won't hurt.

And a human sized guy who can bench the earth, A: we kinda have to throw RL physics and biology out, and B: if not, then we have to consider that a guy who can bench the earth is gonna have pretty strong accessory muscles, the ones that are hard to train.

Certainly stronger than his punching of Batman, as the Bazzie Mark, says.

Yes,agree 100% that technique helps.

But muscles don't hamper, especially when you consider the JLA Al at least have some degree of fight training.

A good example is Marius Pudz. Hugely strong. Hits like a *****. Or Mike Tyson, not actually very strong.

It just doesn't translate to power is all. If you adapt the weightlifting so you can hit harder is another story, but that's difficult to do and something comics don't do.

I just think some things in comics don't translate to real world logic well. This is one of them. You can't tell how hard someone hits by their lift in real life for example. In comics you can, or at the very least you get an indication of what they could do in a fight.

Originally posted by carver9
Well, Superman on more than one occasion said him and Cap are equals.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He has also said he is the strongest being on earth.

Physically strongest: Yes. Feats indicate it.

Most powerful: No. That title belongs to the Flash. Feats indicate it.

👆. I knew Enzeru was a good egg.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
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Also
If you put the strength of an hephalump into a person and assumed it stuck with no downsides (like ripping your arm off), that person would hit harder, but he would also be way faster. Which is something that comics ignore.
Hulk hits harder as he gets stronger but he doesn't exactly get faster. His feats make no sense. Same with Herc.

I don't think you can relate it to comics personally. It's just one of those comic things. I do think this is a more interesting take though.

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Also the frictional force on the striker's feet would have to be ridiculous. You need some serious superglue to prevent from sliding back from punch with tonnage force.

In reality, punching power is also based off effective mass. Mass is the ability to resist motion. Effective mass is based off how unstoppable the punch is.
For example, if a punch is thrown very slowly but the character is mechanically connected to an immovable object, the character is indestructible, and the character's punch motion is unstoppable (due to strength), then the punch will have infinite force.

Hulk is assumed to be connected to the Earth with insane friction on his feet. He is extremely durable and has fantastic strength. Therefore it's possible for him to hit harder while punching the same speed, just make the punch more unstoppable (increase of effective mass).

It's just terrible using real world anything for comics. Jane and Herc in the same comic was doing planetary fts (Jane has thrown a city in the sun from Earth) but she was unable to even budge Hulk. Hulk almost weigh a ton and Jane have planetary strength but her hits didnt even budge him. Real world means nothing in comics.

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And my original point was that I didn't understand the striking =/= lifting mentality.

Logic is logic. If you're strong, you can punch hard. Forget about real world examples, even though in reality, it doesn't hurt to be strong when you all it to technique.

Having technique but no strength = a decent punch
Having strength but no technique = a decent punch as well. Maybe even better. It wouldn't be worse.

And Bran, it may not be linearly correlated, but my point is that if you have a fat boy who knows how to punch, or a bodybuilder, and both have the same mass....the body builder will have a harder punch.

And when you then scale up to Heralds who can bench the earth, it's a good indication they can punch harder than a guy who benches 500lb but is better trained (Batman).

That's an interesting point, but I'm not sure it can be proven.

I'll use who I think is the hardest puncher of all time, George Foreman. Certainly a strong guy, but no bodybuilder. I have a hard time seeing someone like Thor hitting harder than Foreman. He's not a fat boy, but the example should still apply. If you taught Thor how to punch I have severe doubts he could ever punch anywhere near that level. And Thor is about 3 to 4 times stronger than Foreman in almost every lift.

Now we'll shift it back to your direct example. Sure if we get a fat tub of shit that can't move his own weight without making sloppy gecko sounds he wouldn't hit very hard. But your example said both know how to punch, and if he knows how to punch and shift his fat piece of shit weight around, then I don't see why we assume he'd hit less hard than an equally massed muscle monster like Carver9. And I'm assuming correct form which would mean he put in the work to learn proper form.

And going back to real life, if a guy benched the earth, there's a very good chance his hands move at ridiculous speeds without weight. In comics, he hits hard because he's strong.

Originally posted by carver9

Originally posted by Enzeru
Physically strongest: Yes. Feats indicate it.

Most powerful: No. That title belongs to the Flash. Feats indicate it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What are those supposed to prove?

Read the scans.