Superman vs. Speedsters

he's not faster than any of them at their best imo. a fight is different. he's fast enough to be able to tag them and durable enough to tank what they throw at him. the thing he cannot counter is speed steal. the ones who've demonstrated that (and by this time i forget who has and hasn't) would beat him, rather conclusively i'd think.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
When flying he matches them all in speed.

How can you think this? You could argue when flying, the gap is not quite as big. That's about it.

Originally posted by leonidas
he's not faster than any of them at their best imo. a fight is different. he's fast enough to be able to tag them and durable enough to tank what they throw at him. the thing he cannot counter is speed steal. the ones who've demonstrated that (and by this time i forget who has and hasn't) would beat him, rather conclusively i'd think.

Between their superior speed, reflexes, and ability to vibrate through attacks, he shouldn't ever hit a serious Flash like Wally. Especially since they're faster than his long range attacks.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How can you think this? You could argue when flying, the gap is not quite as big. That's about it.

Between their superior speed, reflexes, and ability to vibrate through attacks, he shouldn't ever hit a serious Flash like Wally. Especially since they're faster than his long range attacks.

Because if he is so close behind them and above other flashes while running, flying pretty much takes this handicapp of him, of course not in an atmosphere where he has to take care of not damaging others while going full speed as he has no speed force to preserve his surrounding from the effects of such a speed.

Speed is (on an planet) slightly in their favor but not that much above him that he can't perceive, react or tag them. I am with you that they can't avoid being beaten for some time but they will be tagged. On the other hand, a flash can't ko a serious Superman who speeds up his perception to their or near their levels. A fight between a serious Superman and a serious Flash where both are ready would be like a fight between a very fast runner who can "run away" if he chooses to and Muhammad Ali.

No, Wally would make Clark's balls explode with several IMPs.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Because if he is so close behind them and above other flashes while running,

How is he close behind them while running? What gave you that idea? We literally just saw how Superman compares to a serious Flash.

Conclusion: He doesn't compare.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
flying pretty much takes this handicapp of him, of course not in an atmosphere where he has to take care of not damaging others while going full speed as he has no speed force to preserve his surrounding from the effects of such a speed.

Speed is (on an planet) slightly in their favor but not that much above him that he can't perceive, react or tag them. I am with you that they can't avoid being beaten for some time but they will be tagged. On the other hand, a flash can't ko a serious Superman who speeds up his perception to their or near their levels. A fight between a serious Superman and a serious Flash where both are ready would be like a fight between a very fast runner who can "run away" if he chooses to and Muhammad Ali.

This is a sound assesssment. Except it hinges on the idea that Superman is somehow competitive or close to a Flash like Wally or Barry in speed, much less Zoom at full power. A Flash is far faster than Superman when they're serious or really tapping into the SF.

I can think of a few ways a creative Flash could defeat Superman imo.

Read the text here.

This is what Superman fighting a speedster is going to wind up looking like, whether he (Supes) is running or flying.

Characters like Kryptonians, Martians (white or green), Daxamites etc., or individually gifted speedsters like WW and CM, who arent connected to the SF, just dont compare in terms of sheer power, to the Flashes.
They are on another level.

Originally posted by leonidas
he's not faster than any of them at their best imo. a fight is different. he's fast enough to be able to tag them and durable enough to tank what they throw at him. the thing he cannot counter is speed steal. the ones who've demonstrated that (and by this time i forget who has and hasn't) would beat him, rather conclusively i'd think.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How is he close behind them while running? What gave you that idea? We literally just saw how Superman compares to a serious Flash.

Conclusion: He doesn't compare.

This is a sound assesssment. Except it hinges on the idea that Superman is somehow competitive or close to a Flash like Wally or Barry in speed, much less Zoom at full power. A Flash is far faster than Superman when they're serious or really tapping into the SF.

I can think of a few ways a creative Flash could defeat Superman imo.

Or in Metal where Superman matched Barry going at full speed?

Or in Titans where Wally was stated to be faster than ever but Superman looked faster when flying and lost narrowly on foot?

Or in Batman The Dark Knight where Superman kept up with Flash going around Earth easily?

Or in Final Crisis where Superman matched Flash entering Darkseid singularity?

Or in Superman 709 where Superman caught Flash on foot?

Or in JLA classified where Superman caught an out of control Wally?

Need some more comparisons?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How is he close behind them while running? What gave you that idea? We literally just saw how Superman compares to a serious Flash.

Conclusion: He doesn't compare.

This is a sound assesssment. Except it hinges on the idea that Superman is somehow competitive or close to a Flash like Wally or Barry in speed, much less Zoom at full power. A Flash is far faster than Superman when they're serious or really tapping into the SF.

I can think of a few ways a creative Flash could defeat Superman imo.

So at this point, you're just purposely flat out lying.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How is he close behind them while running? What gave you that idea? We literally just saw how Superman compares to a serious Flash.

Conclusion: He doesn't compare.

This is a sound assesssment. Except it hinges on the idea that Superman is somehow competitive or close to a Flash like Wally or Barry in speed, much less Zoom at full power. A Flash is far faster than Superman when they're serious or really tapping into the SF.

I can think of a few ways a creative Flash could defeat Superman imo.

Facts and comics make me say this. And it's even established as a fact recently that he is close behind the 3 fastest Flashes ever while running. You are acting, (your intention is pure hypocritical and spiteful against Abhi), as if one is so much slower than the other that he has not a prayer of a chance. This is absolutely illogical considering all their showings.

If Flash would fight the Hulk I could agree, the speed differenc is so huge that one would be a statue and couldn't react to the known flash tactics, but Supes is too close to give Flash a real chance. Flash would be a fly, avoiding getting hit but not being fast enough to ko someone who is nearly as fast as him but far more durable. Once the stronger, nearly as fast one connects with a fiststrike it's over.

Conclusion: All out Flash and All out Superman can only have one winner (without bfr), Superman 10/10.

Superman "couldn't quite crack the top 3" can mean he's right behind them or he's the closest behind the top 3 who are on another level. The latter is more likely based on what happened. For example: Zum was really fast, fast enough to give Wally serious trouble. Until he tapped into the SF further and could punch him a thousand times before he blinks.

Those are your examples? I've seen Flash getting to a nuclear weapon that Superman had trouble catching and evacuating the entire city's population. Move so fast that CoIE heroes couldn't perceive him including Superman etc. During the Waid era, when the SF was elaborated on, it went from being competitive, to somewhat competitive, to its only ever competitive because Flash lets it happen. The difference in speed is astronomical, and it boggles my mind how you can bring up Flash war for evidence.

"I couldn't....catch up to them. They're...going too fast. "

The Flashes proceeded to run casually and not even notice his presence. They soon after go even FASTER to break into the Speed-Force.

A few pages later, Superman is one-shot knocked out by Hunter before he can even react:

Btw, in first scan, that was Barry's first ever encounter with Supeeman. He didn't even know he had noticeable super speed.

The last scan you posted is just confusing. Flash has gotten so MUCH faster than that, astronomically faster than Superman's own power increase. The second scan you posted? I'm assuming you didn't read the mini or? I didn't respond in the character ownage thread, because that's not the context thread. Did you find those scans on google or something? SMH. Let's make a Luke Cage vs Superman thread and post scans of Superman who was stronger than a locomotive as evidence.

FYI, all the past Superman and Flash races were addressed in Post-Crisis. How do they historically make sense given the levels Flash has reached? They don't, hence:

Flash fact: Superman fans are a cowardly and sensitive lot.

You're reading too into it

He said they were going too fast. We don't know how much faster they were going. Just that they were faster. DC already said that Supes is #3 (or was it 4?). he is fast enough to possibly tag tham but not in a forum setting

Anyone else interested in giving their 2 cents? Extreme Superman fans (Aka not xjlx or DS etc.) will argue for Superman in a prep war with Thanos or an arm-wrestling match with Eternity so no shortage of responses.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You're reading too into it

He said they were going too fast. We don't know how much faster they were going. Just that they were faster. DC already said that Supes is #3 (or was it 4?). he is fast enough to possibly tag tham but not in a forum setting

Fast enough that they were casually running at a pace, that Superman couldn't touch them even while flying. And at a level where he was exhausted in one lap. Superman has a lot of stamina, they must have been operating at a level far beyond him (At THAT story at least) for him to be winded that fast while they were casual about it AND had extra gears.

Not trying to be rude or anything bro, but you have an actual comic appearance of their comparison. Why are you bringing up a list that no writer will care about in a month?

Originally posted by MrMind
👆 👆 👆
that mini was such bullshit, the writer gave hunter zoom time travel ability
also he wrote bart to death by plot device, removing his power then self sacrifice, what a lame ending

I actually liked it, showing how Bart had grown, culminating in when he lost his powers, still had to face the Rogues, and showed what he could do with his training and a few pieces of equipment. Was a dick move to have him die after that, though.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Fast enough that they were casually running at a pace, that Superman couldn't touch them even while flying. And at a level where he was exhausted in one lap. Superman has a lot of stamina, they must have been operating at a level far beyond him (At THAT story at least) for him to be winded that fast while they were casual about it AND had extra gears.

Not trying to be rude or anything bro, but you have an actual comic appearance of their comparison. Why are you bringing up a list that no writer will care about in a month?

You don't care about the list?

If we don't go by that list, there are DOZENS of other races between Flash and Superman which shows a much tighter race. Evidently, you're using the latest one. Yet when people attempted to use that Thor's most recent feat (Jane and the Sun BS), you quickly disregarded based on previous similar feats.

Don't be hypocritical.

I'm merely using the DC based on how DC as a company views this. If we are actually going to base this argument on the feats and previous bouts, it's much closer.

Flash admitted that he always held back against Superman in races and he proved it right after. Their races are cute and all but it doesnt come close to proving Superman is anywhere near Flash speed, especially since he admitted he was holding back the entire time which led to Superman seeing nothing but a streak from Flash. They are not comparable.

Originally posted by carver9
Flash admitted that he always held back against Superman in races and he proved it right after. Their races are cute and all but it doesnt come close to proving Superman is anywhere near Flash speed, especially since he admitted he was holding back the entire time which led to Superman seeing nothing but a streak from Flash. They are not comparable.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
post that scan PLEASE

😖hifty:

Originally posted by Delta1938
😖hifty:

That is clearly Superman running...

Rage is just being a complete hypocrite. Carver just wants Superman to lose.

No one is arguing that Superman is faster. But the fact that both of them have an agenda that to make it seem like Superman is very slow. This isn't a Thor vs Wolverine, where we see Wolverine making circles around Thor.

And the ironic part is, Rage says,

Why are you bringing up a list that no writer will care about in a month?".

Originally posted by xJLxKing
What? He will be posting this image

That is clearly Superman running...

Rage is just being a complete hypocrite. Carver just wants Superman to lose.

No one is arguing that Superman is faster. But the fact that both of them have an agenda that to make it seem like Superman is very slow. This isn't a Thor vs Wolverine, where we see Wolverine making circles around Thor.

And the ironic part is, Rage says,

Yet, when people present him with scans OF OTHER WRITERS showing a Superman who is much closer to Flash in terms of speed, he wants to disregard it based on the most recent feat.
We might as well say at this point, Thor has durability that can not withstand the Sun's temperature

Oh I know he was going to post it. I thought you were setting him up, hence the 😖hifty: because he's had it pointed out before how Barry's charged by Professor Zoom in that scene, and yet another example of him being corrected only to use it again later. If you were and I ****ed it up, my bad. 🙁