Xavier vs these telepaths

Originally posted by abhilegend

Yes, she does.

How did you determine Saturn Queen was Emma level? Scanning so many minds at once like Imra did is far beyond Xavier or Emma.

But I know why you dismiss it, because you can't counter it.

Because she hasn't done anything Emma hasn't done or exceeded?

Two Saturn Girls could barely take on one Saturn Queen without the feats of Emma. And, again, scanning feats amounted to nothing. Meanwhile, Xavier mind controls, not scans, controls millions of minds while weakened. Yes, his is more impressive.

Originally posted by abhilegend

She stopped him from reading Mon El and he was unable to stop her.

The rings and Lightning Lad only helped widen the portals.

The tears led to other eras but she still had to shift through all the minds of every era in every timeline of the multiverse to connect to an infinite number of Legion.

It's a gargantuan feat, better than anything Xavier has ever done.

The dialogue explicitly states Lighting Lad is amping up the communication abilities of the rings so they can send a distress signal for Imra to use. Then, Cosmic Boy says, "You're on the air, Im." She's clearly broadcasting in conjunction with the rings.

Cosmic Boy opened the portals wider himself. No rings involved.

Nope. Get back to me when she beats someone.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Right, except shifting through the mind of so many timelines is far beyond what Xavier did.

J'onn has captured the thoughts of everyone on Earth. From Mars.

http://imgur.com/a/Zlt3G

Xavier is hardly unique in that regard.

I didn't say Xavier was unique in that regard. I said Saturn Girl has failed to replicate that. Xavier has done it while being off planet as well.
https://postimg.cc/image/ixofg66iz/

Although, you already knew that, since we're having the same discussion over again.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not when they had a conduit in form of Sleepwalker.

Imra defeated a hypnotist who put everyone on Earth in moments and freed everyone.

Xavier couldn't do that even with help.

Imra didn't just sit down and mentally emancipate the planet. She used Universo's medallion to amp, and it didn't even give a time frame for when the rest of the planet was released.

And she had the advantage of being physically on the planet....

Originally posted by abhilegend
How do you explain Dev Em turning himself into a kryptonian by wishing it?

This Servant had the power of Darkseid and Darkseid could enslave 3 billion daxamites at once. Mordru himself is a formidable telepath.

Heck, even Enchantress has made Xavier her ***** and Mordru is several tiers above her in power.

And would've lost. So meh anyway.

Yet, he never displayed all that, and was weakened by the time Imra assaulted him.

Enchantress hasn't made Xavier her *****, but she can keep people out pretty reliably, including folks like Red Onslaught. She'd block anyone here too.

Well, we agree he would've lost. I brought it up for different reasons though.

Alas, I don't know how much longer I'm going to keep this up. Most of this is literally the same thing we've already talked about, and I'm not really game for pages upon pages of restating stuff. Especially since it's basically just us talking now.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Figured I'd isolate this issue, as we really need to get on the same page here.

They mention it about a bajillion times that they altered the timeline. Saturn Queen mentions it on two separate occasions here.
https://postimg.cc/image/tj3peinhn/
https://postimg.cc/image/5que2n5xn/

A world where Lightning Lord murders Clark's parents and Cosmic King kills the murderer of Bruce's parents before adopting them both is clearly not the mainstream timeline. They even talk about changing the events during all that.
https://postimg.cc/image/hfydqup97/
https://postimg.cc/image/yt8o5qn57/
https://postimg.cc/image/fo5evznwr/

I mean, they killed the Justice League members before they ever even became heroes, and Aquaman's parents never conceived him. This is [i]clearly/[i] a different timeline guys.

It 100% is an alternate timeline. They had already killed Superman's parents and adopted Bruce, setting into motion the new timeline. They mention it repeatedly, but here's scans I guess.
https://postimg.cc/image/ttb7xhzff/
https://postimg.cc/image/eklajqdgr/

"Three villains from the future....traveled into the past and changed the timeline."

Saturn Queen I, https://postimg.cc/image/8rb8j4z8b/ , is from the Adult Legion's time though. She fought them, was freed by Superman, and went to Titan to reform her ways before coming back to attack the timeline later.

Saturn Queen II, https://postimg.cc/image/je51okf3f/ , was locked up on Takron-Galtros after fighting the teen LSH. She got out during the Crisis stuff, and later fought Saturn Girl. These two Queens have different histories and are alternate versions of each other.

And the fact that adult versions of the LOSH were shown to be their enemies.

This is the same character that fought Saturn Girl but from future.

Originally posted by StyleTime
She doesn't though.

Because she hasn't done anything Emma hasn't done or exceeded?

Fighting two Saturn Girls at once? Just one Saturn Girl defeated Dr Psycho casually who can go toe to toe with J'onn easily.

Two Saturn Girls could barely take on one Saturn Queen without the feats of Emma. And, again, scanning feats amounted to nothing. Meanwhile, Xavier mind controls, not scans, controls millions of minds while weakened. Yes, his is more impressive.

Xavier didn't control millions of minds, he took their thoughts and projected them.

https://m.imgur.com/a/7Q9cV

J'onn and Earth 247 Saturn Girl linked entire universe at once.

And channeled all the destructive energy through new Genesis and Apokolips to compress Godwave itself.

He didn't try to stop her.

He couldn't.

The dialogue explicitly states Lighting Lad is amping up the communication abilities of the rings so they can send a distress signal for Imra to use. Then, Cosmic Boy says, "You're on the air, Im." She's clearly broadcasting in conjunction with the rings.

But she still had to go through all the minds of Legion of multiverse.

That's why she says "So many minds".

Cosmic Boy opened the portals wider himself. No rings involved.

Eh?

Nope. Get back to me when she beats someone.

Already did.

It might have been, were she not being amped and provided a gateway directly to all them. Xavier reached out, while weakened, and straight up stole the psyches of at least as many people.

Xavier wasn't weakened. In fact, he pushed past all his limitations to just link every human on Earth.

J'onn can do it casually.

I didn't say Xavier was unique in that regard. I said Saturn Girl has failed to replicate that. Xavier has done it while being off planet as well.
https://postimg.cc/image/ixofg66iz/

That was just a small meeting of several alien races. It wasn't the whole planet.

Although, you already knew that, since we're having the same discussion over again.

They had to convince him to allow them to do that, and they were still an entire reality removed from him while fighting Magus. There is no telling how diminished their signal was. This is silly.

They had also been amped by Galactus. So no, it wasn't a weak signal which hindered them.

Imra didn't just sit down and mentally emancipate the planet. She used Universo's medallion to amp, and it didn't even give a time frame for when the rest of the planet was released.

She only used the medallion to focus it. Xavier was also amped by Galactus and couldn't do anything against it.

Imra did what Xavier couldn't, even with help.

And she had the advantage of being physically on the planet....

And Xavier was amped. And had mystics helping him.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eBUbKcmG5w8/VLU3Dpx_udI/AAAAAAAHXuA/AxvPiIZ9iyQ/s1600/p5_5.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vk8d1IYcuYA/VLU3D28-u-I/AAAAAAAHXuw/elKcqBVgyIM/s1600/p5_6.jpg

Originally posted by StyleTime
I could have sworn that was out of continuity.

That version of Dev Em was revealed as an imposter.

Yet, he never displayed all that, and was weakened by the time Imra assaulted him.

So suddenly Darkseid's power no longer includes telepathy? The servant was also amped on Mordru's magic.

Enchantress hasn't made Xavier her *****, but she can keep people out pretty reliably, including folks like Red Onslaught. She'd block anyone here too.

So she blocked Xaviers power twice and would do to anyone here because you say so?

Well, we agree he would've lost. I brought it up for different reasons though.

Alas, I don't know how much longer I'm going to keep this up. Most of this is literally the same thing we've already talked about, and I'm not really game for pages upon pages of restating stuff. Especially since it's basically just us talking now.

It's because you can't look beyond your bias.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The history was changed by Superman and Batman. The same Saturn Queen appeared in Supergirl later as well.

And the fact that adult versions of the LOSH were shown to be their enemies.

This is the same character that fought Saturn Girl but from future.

You're right, Saturn Queen I(the adult) appeared in those. She's not just from the future, she's from a different reality that got destroyed. That's why she's trying to alter this one.

Saturn Queen II was still locked in space prison, and wasn't freed until much later. She's the one who fought Imra.
https://postimg.cc/image/mnucynt2v/
https://postimg.cc/image/6pln8j6kn/

Two different histories, and they don't even look alike.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Fighting two Saturn Girls at once? Just one Saturn Girl defeated Dr Psycho casually who can go toe to toe with J'onn easily.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Xavier didn't control millions of minds, he took their thoughts and projected them.

https://m.imgur.com/a/7Q9cV

J'onn and Earth 247 Saturn Girl linked entire universe at once.

Well, you likely know already what I'm going to say here. That was only possible because of the Source which, even moreso than Saturn Girl Prime's feat, removed the burden of physical proximity altogether. It would otherwise be impossible, as Darkseid and Superman pointed out. Furthermore, they were linking to other telepaths, which further strengthened the link.
https://postimg.cc/image/cgl0e014n/

Originally posted by abhilegend

He couldn't.

But she still had to go through all the minds of Legion of multiverse.

That's why she says "So many minds".

Already did.

Right, she went through them with an amp. It can still be a lot of minds in spite of that.

With Earth 247? Different Saturn Girl than the one we've been discussing. She's got a whole other set of problems that could take up an entire thread, and forfeits Saturn Girl Prime's range, which you're so keen on.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Xavier wasn't weakened. In fact, he pushed past all his limitations to just link every human on Earth. He stated it regardless.

J'onn can do it casually.

That was just a small meeting of several alien races. It wasn't the whole planet.

Several galaxies worth, yes. That's a least as many Legionnaires as Imra dealt with. Regardless, discard it. Xavier channeled the Skrull Homeworld while astral projecting. 8 Billion people as specified in the issue.
https://postimg.cc/image/vpi33sg2f/

Originally posted by abhilegend
They had also been amped by Galactus. So no, it wasn't a weak signal which hindered them.

She only used the medallion to focus it. Xavier was also amped by Galactus and couldn't do anything against it.

Imra did what Xavier couldn't, even with help.

And Xavier was amped. And had mystics helping him.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eBUbKcmG5w8/VLU3Dpx_udI/AAAAAAAHXuA/AxvPiIZ9iyQ/s1600/p5_5.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vk8d1IYcuYA/VLU3D28-u-I/AAAAAAAHXuw/elKcqBVgyIM/s1600/p5_6.jpg

She explicitly states she's combining her powers with the medallion dude. And she was physically on the planet. Xavier wasn't even in the same reality. These two situations are completely unrelated.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That version of Dev Em was revealed as an imposter.

So suddenly Darkseid's power no longer includes telepathy? The servant was also amped on Mordru's magic.

So she blocked Xaviers power twice and would do to anyone here because you say so?

It's because you can't look beyond your bias.

I'm saying the servant demonstrated it. Then was weakened before Imra attacked.

Yeah, totally.

And this is why you're our loveable abhi.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Batman and Superman were working to revert the change. The original change is from Saturn Queen and co. altering things when they killed Supes's parents.

You're right, Saturn Queen I(the adult) appeared in those. She's not just from the future, she's from a different reality that got destroyed. That's why she's trying to alter this one.

She is from future of original LOSH. That version of LOSH was revealed in Lightning Saga.

Saturn Queen II was still locked in space prison, and wasn't freed until much later. She's the one who fought Imra.
https://postimg.cc/image/mnucynt2v/
https://postimg.cc/image/6pln8j6kn/

Two different histories, and they don't even look alike.

You're still not getting it. There isn't any other version of Saturn Queen.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Right, and I've given Saturn Queen her credit. In New 52?

No, post crisis Psycho.

That isn't indicated anywhere, and the scans of the actual event don't say that either.

Well, you likely know already what I'm going to say here. That was only possible because of the Source which, even moreso than Saturn Girl Prime's feat, removed the burden of physical proximity altogether. It would otherwise be impossible, as Darkseid and Superman pointed out. Furthermore, they were linking to other telepaths, which further strengthened the link.
https://postimg.cc/image/cgl0e014n/

It was stated clearly, what are you talking about? They had to channel the mental energies through New Genesis and Apokolips.

Physical proximity or no, linking entire universe? Channeling all that which was done by J'onn and Saturn Girl only?

Xavier can only dream about such a showing.

He didn't try.

Right, she went through them with an amp. It can still be a lot of minds in spite of that.

The ring didn't amp her mental power. It only communicated with other rings.

With Earth 247? Different Saturn Girl than the one we've been discussing. She's got a whole other set of problems that could take up an entire thread, and forfeits Saturn Girl Prime's range, which you're so keen on.

For majority of time Earth 247 Imra had mental blocks on her telepathy. So no, she doesn't has that many issues.

What?

You can be weakened and still push past your limits. They aren't mutually exclusive. He states he isn't at full strength.
https://postimg.cc/image/bfkromk2f/

Not in the retelling of the scene he didn't. It also retconned his feat as linking of the minds rather than stealing minds.

Several galaxies worth, yes. That's a least as many Legionnaires as Imra dealt with. Regardless, discard it. Xavier channeled the Skrull Homeworld while astral projecting. 8 Billion people as specified in the issue.
https://postimg.cc/image/vpi33sg2f/

Good feat for him. Still dwarfed by what J'onn and Imra did though.

Or the signal just required that much power to even get there? Again, they are in another reality. You're assuming they reached Earth at full strength when it's not indicated anywhere.

They took a shortcut by using Sleepwalker as a conduit which bypassed the physical boundaries.

And yet failed.

She explicitly states she's combining her powers with the medallion dude. And she was physically on the planet. Xavier wasn't even in the same reality. These two situations are completely unrelated.

Xavier was amped with the Galactus machine too.

Sleepwalker helped in that regard. Physical distance did not matter then.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I worded that improperly I guess. Was Dev Ems origins actually presented like that in comic? I thought they included that encylopedia excerpt because, at the time, Superman was supposed to be the only Kryptonian. It's editorial and doesn't actually reflect on Imra since she didn't do that. We've seen less powerful telepaths pull off specific tricks that folks stronger than them couldn't.

It was mentioned in a line in a comic AFAIK.

I'm not aware of any psychic in marvel changing their DNA by just wishing it. Rachel did but that was TK and not just telepathy.

I'm saying the servant demonstrated it. Then was weakened before Imra attacked.

Does that somehow negates the fact that she literally turned him into dust? Which psychic in marvel can claim that?

Yeah, totally.

Well Imra turned someone more powerful than Amora into dust.

So there's that.

And this is why you're our loveable abhi.

Well abhi, it's been a time and a half, but I just don't have the energy. Progress is nowhere in sight, and the introduction of Earth 247 Saturn Girl isn't going to help, as I suspect she will cause just as much disagreement between us. I'm calling it quits here.

If you want to believe Imra warps reality and the Saturn Queens are the same person, it's your right as a KMC citizen sir. 👆

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was mentioned in a line in a comic AFAIK.

I'm not aware of any psychic in marvel changing their DNA by just wishing it. Rachel did but that was TK and not just telepathy.

Teen Jean psychically reconstructed a new body after her body was destroyed. I would have suggested this, but it got retconned into her using TK later on.
https://postimg.cc/image/cxnedw5sb/
https://postimg.cc/image/ws9g00spn/

Xavier and Shadow King have healed their physical bodies psychically. Xavier is in Fantomex's body currently, so that is why he looks different.
https://postimg.cc/image/skenrg6rf/
https://postimg.cc/image/bjvrivom3/
https://postimg.cc/image/4gnw39qwb/

Other than that, Adult Jean did retain her TK after mindswapping into Emma's body. Doesn't mention DNA changing, but it's hard to account for it otherwise. At the very least, it does appear high order telepaths can affect physical bodies in some way. Dev Em's thing is a bit specific though, and as I said, seemed like an editorial band-aid more than anything, as it's not mentioned in a comic.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Well abhi, it's been a time and a half, but I just don't have the energy. Progress is nowhere in sight, and the introduction of Earth 247 Saturn Girl isn't going to help, as I suspect she will cause just as much disagreement between us. I'm calling it quits here.

If you want to believe Imra warps reality and the Saturn Queens are the same person, it's your right as a KMC citizen sir. 👆

This piqued my curiosity though, because I can't think of an example either off the top of my head.

Teen Jean psychically reconstructed a new body after her body was destroyed. I would have suggested this, but it got retconned into her using TK later on.
https://postimg.cc/image/cxnedw5sb/
https://postimg.cc/image/ws9g00spn/

Xavier and Shadow King have healed their physical bodies psychically. Xavier is in Fantomex's body currently, so that is why he looks different.
https://postimg.cc/image/skenrg6rf/
https://postimg.cc/image/bjvrivom3/
https://postimg.cc/image/4gnw39qwb/

Other than that, Adult Jean did retain her TK after mindswapping into Emma's body. Doesn't mention DNA changing, but it's hard to account for it otherwise. At the very least, it does appear high order telepaths can affect physical bodies in some way. Dev Em's thing is a bit specific though, and as I said, seemed like an editorial band-aid more than anything, as it's not mentioned in a comic.

Who is that in your avatar, Style?

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm not aware of any psychic in marvel changing their DNA by just wishing it. Rachel did but that was TK and not just telepathy.

Originally posted by Zack M
Who is that in your avatar, Style?

Originally posted by Smurph
This is basically what the Mummudrai do. They might be considered a special case though.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Well abhi, it's been a time and a half, but I just don't have the energy. Progress is nowhere in sight, and the introduction of Earth 247 Saturn Girl isn't going to help, as I suspect she will cause just as much disagreement between us. I'm calling it quits here.

If you want to believe Imra warps reality and the Saturn Queens are the same person, it's your right as a KMC citizen sir. 👆

This piqued my curiosity though, because I can't think of an example either off the top of my head.

Teen Jean psychically reconstructed a new body after her body was destroyed. I would have suggested this, but it got retconned into her using TK later on.
https://postimg.cc/image/cxnedw5sb/
https://postimg.cc/image/ws9g00spn/

Xavier and Shadow King have healed their physical bodies psychically. Xavier is in Fantomex's body currently, so that is why he looks different.
https://postimg.cc/image/skenrg6rf/
https://postimg.cc/image/bjvrivom3/
https://postimg.cc/image/4gnw39qwb/

Other than that, Adult Jean did retain her TK after mindswapping into Emma's body. Doesn't mention DNA changing, but it's hard to account for it otherwise. At the very least, it does appear high order telepaths can affect physical bodies in some way. Dev Em's thing is a bit specific though, and as I said, seemed like an editorial band-aid more than anything, as it's not mentioned in a comic.

Originally posted by StyleTime
The Jean scans.
https://postimg.cc/image/e79jw4itj/
https://postimg.cc/image/he43frazb/
https://postimg.cc/image/s0xwl6quf/

Nice scans though.

Originally posted by Smurph
This is basically what the Mummudrai do. They might be considered a special case though.

That was a weird retcon.

looks like Saturn girl wins quite easily

I actually took the time to read ABHI scans and compared it to what he said happened in the scans... I'm lost for words. He literally write his own story because his posts ALWAYS contradict his scans. You cant debate against him because you'll spend 97% of the time debunking the scans. Its crazy. Hes terrible.

Originally posted by carver9
I actually took the time to read ABHI scans and compared it to what he said happened in the scans... I'm lost for words. He literally write his own story because his posts ALWAYS contradict his scans. You cant debate against him because you'll spend 97% of the time debunking the scans. Its crazy. Hes terrible.

Shut up.