Red Hood Vs Bullseye

Originally posted by Supermutant
no shit sherlock. Taskmaster has studied Cap, Bane has studied Batman. Arch rivals or main rogue gallery studying their opponent who they face constantly isn't new. Congrats you pass comics 101.

Twice:

Originally posted by Supermutant
Lester can go from stalemating both Elektra and Daredevil to being own in one shot by Taskmaster. I think you need to re-educate yourself on what consistent means.

Originally posted by Supermutant
You just gave reasons why Bullseye is inconsistent. I'm not saying losing to Taskmaster shows inconsistency. I'm stating that Bullseye stalemating both DD and Elektra simultaneously in one comic, then getting knock down casually by Taskmaster in one shot show inconsistency.

What you missed [probably because you don't read the comics, only look at RTs] is that Bullseye obsessively and specifically studies Elektra and Daredevil:

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/40261373/Daredevil.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/40261374/Elektra.jpg.html

Whether or not Bullseye is inconsistent is another matter entirely, but your argument is so bad, that Sin knows more than you.

I mean, if you really want to show inconsistency, you could have shown Bullseye losing to Punisher straight up:

And then in another fight, he inconsistently:

....uh, also loses to Punisher.

Wew.

What happened to using them at their best? And why does losing to the Punisher suddenly become a low showing? It's not as if the Red Hood is this unbeatable opponent made out of Element X, and possesing the speed, strength, skill of the best, strongest, and fastest characters ever imagined.

Besides isn't Lester far more durable than Jay?

Originally posted by Supermutant
You just gave reasons why Bullseye is inconsistent. I'm not saying losing to Taskmaster shows inconsistency. I'm stating that Bullseye stalemating both DD and Elektra simultaneously in one comic, then getting knock down casually by Taskmaster in one shot show inconsistency.

Bullseye had an evenish match with Cap in one comic, then gets destroyed by D- lister American Eagle in another one.

Then the issues of his adamantium lace bones and healing factor. Does he even have them still?

And Red Hood can go from beating down A + MMAers like Batman and Shiva, to getting beat down by them like what Bruce recently did to him.

Youre kinda lowballing both American Eagle and Taskmaster...they really are that good.

To be fair now, Frank is better than most people think.

He never was an angry dude with a gun - he's a one man army.

Originally posted by Philosophía
You used some of Bullseye's good performances against Daredevil/Elektra, in contrast to Taskmaster, to prove that he is inconsistent.

Twice:

What you missed [probably because you don't read the comics, only look at RTs] is that Bullseye obsessively and specifically studies Elektra and Daredevil:

...which shows that his showings against them compared to Taskmaster is not a matter of 'blank state' inconsistency, but of him being specialized in fighting Daredevil/Elektra.

Whether or not Bullseye is inconsistent is another matter entirely, but your argument is so bad, that Sin knows more than you.

I mean, if you really want to show inconsistency, you could have shown Bullseye losing to Punisher straight up:

And then in another fight, he inconsistently:

....uh, also loses to Punisher.

Wew.

Again you come into this thread stating obvious things. Of course Bullseye has studied Matt and Elektra doesn't make his ability to stalemate them at times any less impressive. But then like I have showed DD (and Elektra) can dominate him in h2h, which goes back to his inconsistency. This isn't anything too hard to comprehend well maybe for you.

I mean thanks for the punisher scans which further demonstrates my point. Sometimes Bullseye can give Punisher a great fight other times not so much.

Bullseye and Taskmaster for that matter Sin, can go from giving A listers all they can handle to getting humiliated by D listers. More so than others streets or low metas they either have really high feats or really low. Tasky can briefly take on Cap and Bucky or Cap and Ironman but also get two-shotted by Elektra wearing heels. He can humiliate Agent Venom, fight both Punisher and Deadpool simultaneously and himself get humiliate by Mr. X , Moonknight, and one-shotted by Black Panther.

Its real funny that Phil comes in here like an idiot showing and stating stuff that is either obvious or irrelevant. lol wow guys Bullseye has studied his arch rivial over the years, but but but the fact that he can stalemate them both together at times mostly early in his career and in more recent times one or the other can pretty much dominate him in h2h -- does not show inconsistency in what counts for his opinion. This is great, then show Punisher scans where Bullseye performs much better in one fight than the other which goes exactly back to being inconsistent. lmao

Plus IIRC those scans comes from the Punisher Max series which of course is not mainstream 616 canon. But they do my argument much good.

or either the Punisher vs Bullseye 5 issue limited series where Bullseye had the drop on him but instead of shooting him in the head, he threw a non lethal paper airplane at his skull. so lets see

Its really annoying trying to quote Phil and he probably set it up that way, so people would just give up instead of pointing out his many errors and misrepresentations. Speaking of which:

Phil last set of scans came from the Punisher vs Bullseye marvel knights series like I previously thought. While Punisher certainly got the better of Lester in h2h, Lester had multiple opportunities to end him but sake of plot and all that typical stuff between heroes and villains. It was by no means a low showing and much better than some other showing against Frank.

Their encounter really starts when Bullseye gets the drop on Punisher but instead of putting a bullet through his skull, he just hurts him with a paper airplane. Pretty funny stuff. Bullseye also blows up Punisher weapons house but of course Punisher survives.

BE again locates Pun and blows up the shed he is in with a rocket launcher. Then typically villain gets distracted doesn't make sure the hero is dead stuff.

Next looks like Punisher is going to sneak up on BE, but at the very last second BE stabs him in the shoulder. H2h engage they break each other noses (BE one of the greatest marksman decides to throw his gun instead of you know fire it). More or less even fight until BE goes for a face stomp, and Pun counters by throwing him on the ground and smashing his face into the concrete. Kids interfere allowing BE to escape.

Originally posted by Supermutant
Again you come into this thread stating obvious things. Of course Bullseye has studied Matt and Elektra doesn't make his ability to stalemate them at times any less impressive. But then like I have showed DD (and Elektra) can dominate him in h2h, which goes back to his inconsistency. This isn't anything too hard to comprehend well maybe for you.

Hate to say this but that doesn't help your argument if Bullseye has studied DD/Elektra and they still dominate him that further proves Phils point that BE is crap in h2h.

Originally posted by Supermutant

I mean thanks for the punisher scans which further demonstrates my point. Sometimes Bullseye can give Punisher a great fight other times not so much.

Yea that does prove your point. However to really prove your point give examples outside of DD/EE. I Will say this though sometimes people get BE's throwing ability mixed up with h2h. They're not the same thing and when you say h2h skills you need to clarify what you mean. BE's throwing ability is like a super power his h2h skills are not. So when you say h2h do you mean h2h or do you mean a mix of both? So in terms of pure h2h I gotta say he's not that impressive but characters seem to rarely just engage in pure h2h anyway. Not sure if I'm making a confusing point.

Originally posted by Supermutant

Plus IIRC those scans comes from the Punisher Max series which of course is not mainstream 616 canon. But they do my argument much good.

I think it was Marvel Knight and that's canon.

If anyone's inconsitent in h2h it's the Punisher. He goes from holding his own against Alyosha Kravinoff and DD to getting beaten up by 3 prison guards because he's thirsty. facepalm Just read some Chuck Dixon or Mike Baron Punisher......

Final encounter again BE gets the drop on Pun. He actually out-prep him by using hostages. Somehow BE shoots Punisher in the back three different times and not one of them is fatal, lol. In between killing others, BE manages to paralyze Pun with a botox needle. Pun eventual gets up and fires into location of BE, but BE escapes. Huge twist, turns out BE was using Pun the whole time to take out an entire crime family. So BE collects on his big payday.

Phil quote

What you missed [probably because you don't read the comics, only look at RTs]

Now ask yourself between Phi and myself who actually read and re-read the comics and who just look at respect threads coming in here stating obvious things.

I mean I could go through each encounter between DD + Elektra vs BE. Apparently Phil believes that BE have only face them simultaneously one time. lol

For those who may not know Bane actually stalked Batman for months, learning his secret identity, watching Bruce fight his rogue gallery much of whom Bane let loose. Before he went into Wayne manor and broke him. You know just in case people didn't know that. Apparently who should state obvious things before you post. And even better the heroes can have detail files on what the villains can do, and routinely train to beat them, but its a negative for the villains to train to fight the heroes. What a moron.

Originally posted by Deadline
Hate to say this but that doesn't help your argument if Bullseye has studied DD/Elektra and they still dominate him that further proves Phils point that BE is crap in h2h.

The studied thing goes both ways. Where did I state that Bullseye is great h2h? Thing is this isn't just a h2h fight against Jason Todd. If it was I would give him the nod.

Originally posted by Supermutant
Final encounter again BE gets the drop on Pun. He actually out-prep him by using hostages. Somehow BE shoots Punisher in the back three different times and not one of them is fatal, lol. In between killing others, BE manages to paralyze Pun with a botox needle. Pun eventual gets up and fires into location of BE, but BE escapes. Huge twist, turns out BE was using Pun the whole time to take out an entire crime family. So BE collects on his big payday.

Phil quote

Now ask yourself between Phi and myself who actually read and re-read the comics and who just look at respect threads coming in here stating obvious things.

I mean I could go through each encounter between DD + Elektra vs BE. Apparently Phil believes that BE have only face them simultaneously one time. lol

For those who may not know Bane actually stalked Batman for months, learning his secret identity, watching Bruce fight his rogue gallery much of whom Bane let loose. Before he went into Wayne manor and broke him. You know just in case people didn't know that. Apparently who should state obvious things before you post. And even better the heroes can have detail files on what the villains can do, and routinely train to beat them, but its a negative for the villains to train to fight the heroes. What a moron.

I could also add that I saw a scan of spiderman saying that heroes study other heroes when they meet each other because they might have to fight them.

I gotta say though the BE has studied people argument though I think is kinda weak because that sort of thing seems to happen a lot and writers sometimes remember it or forget it.

Originally posted by Supermutant
The studied thing goes both ways. Where did I state that Bullseye is great h2h? Thing is this isn't just a h2h fight against Jason Todd. If it was I would probably lean towards him.

You didn't say he was crap either. Anyway guess I'm trying to play devils advocate. Bottomline the studied thing is a bit like the experience in h2h argument, sometimes it matters sometimes it doesn't. It depends.

Of course the studied thing is weak. Its a terrible argument b/c name one arch rivals or main rogue gallery with a brain that hasn't studied their main opponent or opponents. Its not like BE is designing sonic weapons or tech to defeat DD. He's just countering moves or trying to use projectiles. maybe he takes hostages or something but in an actual fight he just fighting based on knowledge he should have anyway because of all their many encounters.

By the way who do you think know more about how Batman thinks, reacts, his abilities-- the Joker or Nightwing?

Originally posted by Supermutant
Of course the studied thing is weak. Its a terrible argument b/c name one arch rivals or main rogue gallery with a brain that hasn't studied their main opponent or opponents. Its not like BE is designing sonic weapons or tech to defeat DD. He's just countering moves or trying to use projectiles. maybe he takes hostages or something but in an actual fight he just fighting based on knowledge he should have anyway because of all their many encounters.

It could certainly be argued that he could apply that knowledge to other fighters as well.

Originally posted by Supermutant

By the way who do you think know more about how Batman thinks, reacts, his abilities-- the Joker or Nightwing?

Dam that's a pretty good question. I'd say that The Joker actually might know more about how Batman thinks but Nightwing knows more about his physical abilities, training etc. Have a feeling this question was supposed to be rhetorical.

Originally posted by Deadline
You didn't say he was crap either. Anyway guess I'm trying to play devils advocate. Bottomline the studied thing is a bit like the experience in h2h argument, sometimes it matters sometimes it doesn't. It depends.

like I stated before that just semantics. He's crap b/c he's inconsistent. He's inconsistent b/c he's crap. He's inconsistent crap. Don't really makes a different. But BE certainly isn't crap with a gun in his hand in a forum setting where Jason's hood is the only thing "protecting" his skull and not the bullet proof helmet like it was previously.

Oh I just noticed that this scan is from BE studying her much later in her career.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/40261374/Elektra.jpg.html

So what about the fights he had before that?

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/40261373/Daredevil.jpg.html

I think DD and Bullseye fought before that as well. That looks like early 80s.

Keep seeing Dlisters being brought up when it's not relevant

^ I could be wrong but think the point might have gone over your head.

Originally posted by Deadline
^ I could be wrong but think the point might have gone over your head.

No, it's just an inaccurate statement. American Eagle superhuman stats were up-played, plus BE had to pay for what he did to Jack Flag. Then the whole term is derogatory. Batroc is considered a "d-lister" until the playing field is equalized like in the raft and people steer clear of him.

Im just saying that without gear, prep and tools those two are pretty consistent imo.