KMC's TOP 10 - REACTIVATION - #2

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Where is this proof that the Eclipse itself is a dark side nexus?

Given that Sheev is inside the ship, it seems pretty obviously referring to him.

The fact there's a dramatic shift for Leia between approaching the ship and touching foot in the ship indicates it's largely in reference to the dark side energies concentrated in the ship. I don't think Palpatine's presence would be constrained by the ships material like how energies imbued in the walls, air, etc. naturally would (like how they are in Sith temples).

Also, I'll have to find the quote from Veitch saying it's a nexus.

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That’s a weak argument. The only logical way Nexus’ work is the more powerful you are the more of their power you can handle. Ergo if Spirit Vitiate can only possess a few people at the start, it’s because he was weaker. That doesn’t mean that once he’s accumulated more power he can’t lean more heavily on the nexus.

I've never seen anything indicating that's how nexuses work.

Originally posted by Jaggarath
The fact there's a dramatic shift for Leia between approaching the ship and touching foot in the ship indicates it's largely in reference to the dark side energies concentrated in the ship.

I don't think Palpatine's presence would be constrained by the ships material like how energies imbued in the walls, air, etc. naturally would (like how they are in Sith temples).

Not really, no. We know nexuses are confined by space, distance, and physical obstruction - otherwise their energies would seep out uninhibited. Nexuses have been confined by temple walls, natural formations, or atmosphere.

Meanwhile, the source material states that the Emperor is "more powerful than ever" after defeating Luke and departing for Da Soocha V and that same source material identifies him, not the ship, as a nexus.

Also, I'll have to find the quote from Veitch saying it's a nexus.

OK.

Originally posted by Jaggarath
I'll get back to this Thursday night. I'll pin it for now. Remind me on Hangouts if I forget. 👆

Also, if the Eclipse were indeed the nexus to which Leia refers, that would also require that it be a more powerful nexus than Byss. This is another reason why that interpretation is... well, suspect, to be charitable.

If Veitch confirms it then that's a moot point. In fact, your point would only make it worse for Sheev because it'd be an even more extreme amp than Byss is stated to be.

Just read the relevant part of Ant's post in the CaV...

A planet’s magnetic field is generated by the flowing of liquid metal in its outer core [4]. This means, to create planetary geomagnetic pulses, Vitiate’s wave of dark side energy must have affected Ziost’s outer core.

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...wait, so all this time when the TOR brigade has been bragging about the death wave affecting Ziost's core...this is what you were talking about?

Firstly, you don't need to actually touch the outer core to create temporary disturbances in the magnetic field - you just need an external magnetic field. Solar storms, and indeed large nuclear warheads, can noticeably do this.

Secondly, "geomagnetic pulses", if we guess what that means, could be of any magnitude, and there's basically no reason to think that this feat is actually more energetic than the kinds of firepower force storms are exceeding by being clearly more destructive than base delta zeroes that can boil a world's oceans, blast away its atmosphere and melt its crust. Yeah, let's generously assume the field nondestructively propagated something a few thousand kilometers through the ground - how in the world is this even close to what we see from storms? Even intuitively, the storms are putting entire fleets through tens of thousands of light years! We know that a single imperial star destroyer on jumping to hyperspace consumes more energy than most planetary civilizations do in their lifetimes.

The idea that some vague EM pulses appearing in the planet somehow exceeds force storms that tear apart fleets and bridge wormholes between tens of thousands of light years is just preposterous and it's kind of hilarious that your brigade has been smugly holding this as a secret reason to start scaling Vaylin above Yoda or something.

This explains why the space station above Ziost buckled

There is incredibly mild shaking. A few seconds of the Executor's power output coming from that distance away would've been impacting the ship like point blank thermonuclear detonations. 🙄

Even after the initial energy wave, the pulses are shown to be potent enough to shake areas of the planet as they travel across it

So really faint pulses that aren't enough to knock you down are 1337, but Sidious's force storms can take out fleets of ships faster than their own guns that can turn an entire planet's surface to molten slag aren't. Gotcha.

Ell, the geomagnetic pulses were continuous. Moreover, it's stated that there were fissures ripped into the surface of Ziost deep enough to drop sub-surface probes into.

But no, unfortunately for you, that's not a secret. It's been in LeGenD's blog for years, kek.

To briefly clarify, the significance of the pulses are to indicate that the atmosphere and magnetic field were affected. The pulses themselves are not the feat, although they are impressive in their own right (note I don't think anyone has argued they're comparable to Force storms), lol. So, you're either confused or fabricating your own argument to rebut against.

None of your points seems to address my arguments besides the second and third sentences, which I'll get back to you on soon. 👆

Originally posted by AncientPower
Ell, the geomagnetic pulses were continuous.

What does that even mean?

Moreover, it's stated that there were fissures ripped into the surface of Ziost deep enough to drop sub-surface probes into.

Which compares to force storms...how exactly?

But no, unfortunately for you, that's not a secret. It's been in LeGenD's blog for years, kek.

The new development has been to try to scale creating fissures and pulses that can mildly shake a spaceship to taking out an entire fleet of warships and ripping the surfaces off of worlds.

Originally posted by Jaggarath
To briefly clarify, the significance of the pulses are to indicate that the atmosphere and magnetic field were affected.[/B]

Given that force storms >>>>> base delta zeroes that can blast away atmospheres and boil oceans, that's not really impressive.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Given that force storms >>>>> base delta zeroes that can blast away atmospheres and boil oceans, that's not really impressive.

It's impressive when put within the context of the CaV, which is where it's written.

Skillz and others can speak to its relevance (or lack thereof) against Force storms.

Solar storms, and indeed large nuclear warheads, can noticeably do this.

To clarify before I respond though: do solar storms and/or nuclear warheads produce effects similar to the pulses or space station shaking, and would their effects encompass the entire planet or just a select region?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
What does that even mean?

Which compares to force storms...how exactly?

1.It means it was a permanent effect on Ziost, it completely changed the make-up of the planet.

2.Causng earthquakes; which coincidentally explains the magnetic pulses, strong enough to rip fissures* deep enough to reach the mantle of the planet, is an absolutely insane feat.

*In the game there's a daily mission where you race a speeder for 1 and a half minutes across a small region, likely no longer than two miles and there's already 6 of them. Scale that upwards and we have hundreds of fissures in the surface of the planet at least. I assume you can do the math there.

Originally posted by AncientPower
1.It means it was a permanent effect on Ziost, it completely changed the make-up of the planet.

*citation needed*

2.Causng earthquakes;

lmao, a Venator's turbolasers cause like richter 9 earthquakes. Are you seriously comparing earthquakes to ripping out a planet's surface? How are the two remotely comparable?

which coincidentally explains the magnetic pulses,

You just destroyed Ziost, thanks. If it's just the consequence of some earthquakes it can't possibly be more energetic than literally disintegrating tectonic plates instead of just shifting them a bit. Any earthquake energetic enough to be more potent than devouring the planet's surface would just destroy the plates instead of causing the earthquake in the first place.

strong enough to rip fissures* deep enough to reach the mantle of the planet, is an absolutely insane feat.

*In the game there's a daily mission where you race a speeder for 1 and a half minutes across a small region, likely no longer than two miles and there's already 6 of them. Scale that upwards and we have hundreds of fissures in the surface of the planet at least. I assume you can do the math there.

How does this compare to force storms in the slightest? They can destroy capital ships with greater ease than turbolaser barrages that can rend entire planetary surfaces into molten slag. You keep condescendingly gloating about how this feat is "insane" and every time we ask you to actually line it up with force storms and explain how it's better, you pause and just embarrassingly latch onto "earthquakes" as though that's in the same league as creating hyperspace wormholes.

Can you please actually try to compare the two feats instead of just vaguely describing yours and calling it "insane"?

1.You realise that the daily mission Dead Pulse takes place well after the cataclysm of Ziost itself? The pulses kept going. That's the whole point of the mission.

2.Hardly, I'm postulating that it might have been an effect of the earthquakes. Given my first point though, it being the effect of eartbquakes doesn't take into account that they persist long after the earthquakes are finished.

You've still failed to actually show us where in fact the actual tearing off surfaces of planets feat for his Force storms is. Because Sourcebooks don't introduce new information, they adapt it and retell it in a new format. Which leads me to believe that Ant is correct as far as that statement referring to Coruscant goes.

Earthquakes that rip apart the surface; creating persistent anomalies in the magnetic field; disintegrating every living thing; destroying the atmosphere; absorbing the dark side nexus; absorbing all life and Force energy, and creating a void in the Force. Whilst operating as an incorporeal entity. That's the feat, all in one. At least, it is until I'm finished with my research.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Valkorion.

Peak Valkorion >> Outlander/Unchained Vaylin/Arcann >> Outlander > Unchained Vaylin >>> KOTET Chapter 9 Arcann <~ Chained Vaylin > Spirit Valkorion >>>>> Ziostiate ~ killing and consuming all life on Ziost.

Essentially, we see that in KOTET Chapter 9, Outlander w/OP holocron + Unchained Vaylin + Redeemed Arcann are utterly overpowered when Valkorion says, "Enough!", snatches the holocron, crushes it, forces the rushing Vaylin and Arcann into submission, each with a casual gesture, then blasting the Outlander with TK and assaulting him with TP. Furthermore, we see that Valkorion is casually able to force Unchained Vaylin to submit to him with TP, and even upon the Outlander's insistence to resist, Valkorion simply applies a bit more pressure, and Vaylin is back under his control. Valkorion could even rejuvenate Vaylin's spirit seemingly indefinitely, thus forcing the Outlander to free her via the holocron. If we assume some degree of relativity between Valkorion's spirit utterly ravaging the trio of Arcann/Vaylin/Outlander w/holocron's spirits and how their physical forms, we can deduce that Peak Valkorion >> Unchained Vaylin/Outlander w/holocron/Redeemed Arcann.

Obviously, the trio collectively would be vastly superior to any of them individually. This leads us to the Outlander, who proved his superiority to Unchained Vaylin by:

a: tanking her final force repulse, essentially walking through it and gutting Vaylin through her force shield.

b: directly defeating Unchained Vaylin's spirit in combat.

This leads us to Unchained Vaylin, whose powers are infinitely greater than those of Chained Vaylin, given that prior to becoming fully Unchained, while undergoing the transformation, her power is stated to be "racing out of control," and she essentially goes from being utterly overwhelmed by and struggling immensely with the 6 sun generators, to completely overpowering them upon becoming Unchained, (and proceeding to casually blow up the whole BRAIN experiment from orbit, to boot). Thus, Unchained Vaylin >>> Chained Vaylin.

Even Chained Vaylin has absurd power curves, though. She goes from being frozen in Valk's time stop, (one where Valk, ironically, mentions how Vaylin's power grows exponentially, and that if he doesn't kill her efficiently, he will die). Vaylin of course completely stomps the Outlander, thus forcing Valkorion to intervene with his time stop. But this time, literally 5 minutes after Valk had Vaylin froze and warned the Outlander about her exponential power growth, Vaylin completely overpowered the time stop in mere seconds. This caused the Outlander to note that Vaylin was even stronger than Valkorion, and the Immortal Emperor had to resort to using her conditioning fashioned by years of rituals on a void meant to "limit her growing power."

As mentioned in the first Reactivation, Spirit Valkorion >>>>> Vitiate as of when he consumed all life on Ziost. Essentially, the gap between Vitiate from the beginning of the Revanite War and Vitiate right before he consumed Ziost is microbial compared to the gap between Spirit Valkorion and Vitiate right before he consumed Ziost. I've also already spoken for the power Ziostiate wields, from the beginning, middle, and end of Ziost.

So, yeah...Peak Valkorion >> Outlander/Unchained Vaylin/Arcann >> Outlander > Unchained Vaylin >>> KOTET Chapter 9 Arcann <~ Chained Vaylin > Spirit Valkorion >>>>> Ziostiate ~ killing and consuming all life on Ziost.

That's cool and all, but how does this directly compare to Sheev?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's cool and all, but how does this directly compare to Sheev?

Terribly, since Sheev is a planet buster.

Originally posted by Jaggarath
I've never seen anything indicating that's how nexuses work.

I can’t think of any quotes either tbf, but it’s basic logic. An acolyte won’t be able to harness the same power on Dromund Kaas as Vitiate.

Actually, come to think of it, some of the literature on rituals basically says as much mmm