Originally posted by cdtm
Too lazy to track down scans, but she did deflect Hermes lightning.Which, given his status as super speedy messenger of the gods, is most likely not typical lightning. And even if it were, Hermes himself is still fast enough, where aim dodging would be impossible if she didn't possess sufficiant speed.
You dont mean the same Hermes who was shown to be around the same speed as Wally West backnin his sonic days just post crisis do you?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Can you give me the scans and issues for all of those? And are you really saying that Batman has herald tier durability?
He was pretty durable against NoBody. Was smashing through walls and stuff. That's pretty much the only time he's been in a fight without his armour.You were the one who asked for scans against a non holding back WW 😂 now it's against ALL characters? Lol, moving goalposts much?
My point still remains. Writers ignore power levels. Just today, Superman was punched harder than even Doomsday, and all he had was a little bit of blood.
Show me ALL the times a speedster has moved so quickly, Batman is unable to react. Give me the average. He's fought Zoom, stabbing and punching him. Outreacted Superman. GL. Fought WW. I'm sure there are Flash scans too.
I'm saying that writers ignore power levels to write a sexy story. They don't all sit in a room and hammer out consistency.
'Hey Snyder, last week you wrote that Batman can bench 500lbs, right? I better stick to that limit'
'King, remember in Batman #163, published back in 1974 DC said he could take a punch from Judomaster? Better stick to that!'
Batman has herald durability if you use the logic of power scaling. I do NOT think he has herald durability.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm saying that writers ignore power levels to write a sexy story. They don't all sit in a room and hammer out consistency.'Hey Snyder, last week you wrote that Batman can bench 500lbs, right? I better stick to that limit'
'King, remember in Batman #163, published back in 1974 DC said he could take a punch from Judomaster? Better stick to that!'
Batman has herald durability if you use the logic of power scaling. I do NOT think he has herald durability.
This is why characters with relatively fewer, yet consistent, appearances are easier to argue, theoretically. IMO, someone like Gladiator, who barely exists through his entire history as some do in a month, looks better for three solid feats then someone like, say, Superman.
It's not lowballing Batman to say "So in 50 years, he dodged a bullet twice? Not a bullet dodger, imo."
It's cherry picking to put those aberrations over his entire history.
Originally posted by XLR87T3
How powerful and fast is Konvikt, Darksaint?
I wrote a comment on this nearly 2 years ago:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I think it depends on how many showings they have.Deathstroke has plenty of showings, where, whilst he tags Flash, also has many showings where he is much slower than Flash (hit by bullets, for example).
Therefore, fights don't count as much. Feats do. Because of PIS, or WIS, or whatever, where he has to be shown to be a threat - thus, dumbing down the other side. Why else would Toyman be a fricking threat, lol.
LT? Darkseid? Fights count much more. They don't have as many appearances. ABC scaling is needed. When they enter a fight, it's a pretty damn big deal.
Captain Marvel? He has a fair few appearances. So his feats need to be taken into account. Orion? Fewer - and then, he only seems to be trotted out for fights (he IS the Dog of War, after all). So his fights count for more.
So with Konvikt, power-scaling is all we have. Hence my comment above about WW - she's been around since the 40s, yadda yadda. She has TONS of showings. She's not like Ares, where he's pretty much defined by his relationship with Hercules.
So it should be easy enough to post her FTL feats.
Looks like Darksaint is saying the same thing I did just now. It's good to see he retroactively agrees with me. 👆
Another fine example, is Val Armorr. He has few feats, AND he's human. His feats aren't PIS, and Slades are.
Because aside from the fewer showings, he also has narrative context from day one, of being fast enough and and strong enough to challenge Superboy. That was his initiation.
Plus, he was made in the silver age. Someone like him really couldn't work now, so he gets a pass for remaining relatively unchanged, as a relic of history. If Batman learned some martial arts that could rock Superman and defend a Flash blitz, it would be total bullshit.
Originally posted by XLR87T3
Can you give me the scans and issues for all of those? And are you really saying that Batman has herald tier durability?
OK, scans and issues:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He was pretty durable against NoBody. Was smashing through walls and stuff. That's pretty much the only time he's been in a fight without his armour.
Sorry, it was actually Lincoln March. Who is strong enough to twist metal in his hands (Batman Eternal#52):
https://imgur.com/a/EujNx
Here he is, stabbed through vital arteries, without his suit, and surviving a fall after being kicked through 'unbreakable' glass:
https://imgur.com/a/X9plB
He's fought Zoom, stabbing and punching him.
[b][b]
Outreacted Superman.
Eclipso, btw, makes you stronger:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0X06zg1plqw/WH9z-XT4CKI/AAAAAAABmyk/49miN2UdIEYmSBE_sjIyTzcEba5p9mxewCLcB/s1600/12_05.jpg
Bonus: Batman was also fighting WW in that issue:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-325Ka0ZuvRY/WIqkdK60aSI/AAAAAAABqdU/Ei64Tzqgq_E59UEZKoWesTnnYKLZbh6nQCLcB/s1600/33_003.jpg
Here are some more bonus ones. Superman's son is being mind-controlled by Manchester Black, who is 'pushing Superboy's powers to the limit'. Superboy attempts to speedblitz Batman. Doesn't work:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-v3ogGJf-2Io/WUpA75FKTgI/AAAAAAAACnc/7U09Vzf2L8MN6anJQuggTDCmbQ6RU8AFACHMYCw/s1600/RCO007.jpg
So yeah, if we used 'power scaling' for established characters like Batman and, for the purposes of this thread, Wonder Woman, then it ends with Batman being high herald, lol.
Note all my scans are n52/Rebirth. I'm not even getting into pre-52, lol.
Wonder Woman has a FTL feat without scaling
