Comic Book Questions & Discussion

Started by Mr Master1,926 pages

Originally posted by MrMind

superman's punch hasn't affected DM yet so...

I simply posed a question, and even asked IF I was INTERPRETING correctly the posts presented.

But don't let your knee jerk reaction stop ya now, like down below:

Originally posted by MrMind

if I remember correctly beyonders cannot travel back time, Manhattan can

As predicted. 😂 ... dude, re-read my post without grinding your teeth,
you'll note,
I NEVER compared BeyonderS' powers to DM or anyone for that matter,
I NEVER even alluded that the thought: 'BeyonderS > DM' ... even crossed my mindmr.

So, highlighting how BeyonderS can't travel back in time withIN the multiverse,
is not only irrelevant concerning my post but inconsequential likewise,
when Eternity (embodiment of Time itself) got killed easily
and couldn't use time-powers on them.

Originally posted by MrMind

Ozy's schemes? Doom stole original beyonder's power so...

😐 ... I am as perplexed as any other as to why you're bringing up classic Beyonder and the Doom pis.

I suppose you didn't know
that Beyonder actually coerced that entire event we later learned in the arc.
The Doom, that stole Beyonder's power was plucked from a future he never existed in,
until Beyonder himself placed 616 Doom in that non-existent future-Doom's place.
In fact,
all of time/history was in danger of collapsing because of the gap in space-time regarding SW Doom,
because there never was a Doom in this future that became the present,
so when the present arrived in real time, that void needed to be filled.

616 Doom, was never in the original SW, or most of SWII for that matter.

616 Doom was chilling inside Norman MCArthur's body since 1983
when his body (armor wearing Doom) was obliterated by Terrax.
In fact, 616 Doom never saw, or met the Beyonder until 1986 FF#288.
Moreover, it was Beyonder that literally changed history and placed 616 Doom in the past (original SW)
so that 616 Doom, could repeat all the actions of the non-existent future Doom. lol.
Also, it was Beyonder in said issue, who placed Doom's soul, back in his original body,
by extracting his soul from Norman McArthur's body, where it had been during the entire SW event.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

That aside, unless an OP is gonna stipulate classic Beyonder
under the exact same conditions as when the non-existent future Doom stole powers,
informing anyone about that pis is pointless.

Beyonder had his guard down, he was studying a destroyed Doom,
helping him even, in a realm where death is difficult to grasp.,
then, while naively trying to help Doom, the pis came in.
He used a union of unique weaponry that again,
unless the OP hands this to his opponent, ... meaningless.

Nothing has happened yet, so be patient. Its gonna be a long wait.

lol

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ So, am I interpreting this correctly?

Superman's punch, Firestorm's tachyons, and Ozy's schemes > DM?

It's just my speculation. As others have mentioned, nothing has happened yet in that regard... The issues are still months away.

Originally posted by MrMind
if I remember correctly beyonders cannot travel back time, Manhattan can

.

im still confused about manny's time travel powers though. in original watchmen comics its said that he could only go back and forth in his own timeline starting at the time he was given superpowers.

but in doomsday clock hes definitely not in his own timeline anymore. hes in a totally different universe and can go to any point in time.

was it explained why hes some much better at time travel now or is geoff johns just giving him new powers in this?

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't think Jon wants to change anything else, anyway. He witnessed Superman's creation story begin to take shape when he caused the Crisis event, and now he wants to see his 'experiment' through to the end -- regardless of what that end is.

A few issues ago Jon implied that what he was in the middle of was far too important for him to concern himself with anything else:
https://i.imgur.com/At5yW67.jpg

As for why Jon wouldn't reshape reality again to try and 'save' himself or w/e: it's because he simply doesn't care whether Superman destroys him or he destroys the universe. Jon isn't some egocentric, megalomaniac villain like Luthor or Doom... He's not even a villain in the traditional sense at all. His only 'goal' is seeing how this story ends... One way or the other. Everything Jon does in between is just him fulfilling [what he believes is] a preordained role.

Lol "seeing how this story ends". That was also hannibal lecters goal. Doesnt necessarily make him "not evil"

So, it turned out the Surfer saved all of the heroes from the black hole and he is thriving inside it to boot. Pretty darn impressive feat by Norrin.

Sorry in advance for the breathy response. Just wanted to address this in detail...

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
im still confused about manny's time travel powers though. in original watchmen comics its said that he could only go back and forth in his own timeline starting at the time he was given superpowers.

but in doomsday clock hes definitely not in his own timeline anymore. hes in a totally different universe and can go to any point in time.

was it explained why hes some much better at time travel now or is geoff johns just giving him new powers in this?

This was answered in Before Watchmen. Manhattan is indeed able to travel into the past, to a time before his creation:
https://i.imgur.com/gzk8KmR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MIWTKvi.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/41j7TCR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kBhcDdy.jpg

But as he learned- if you're not careful, even the slightest nudge or alteration of the past can uncontrollably splinter the 'prime' reality into an infinite number of alternate realities:
https://i.imgur.com/JRkXGjr.jpg

Of course, Jon was ultimately able to destroy all of the alternate universes he had inadvertently created:
https://i.imgur.com/E6YzRAH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5EC5Baj.jpg

But in the wake of the above, Jon learned that he must essentially become a being of inaction and carry out his preordained roles as to not take away the choices of others:
https://i.imgur.com/QL8RrFo.jpg
"I am the most powerful being in the known universe. I can do anything. But for this world to be what it needs to be, what it must be, I must sacrifice my own choices, my own free will, so that they can have choices."

https://i.imgur.com/BzVO5UZ.jpg
"I have put myself into a box, and I fear that if I move again, I will undo all that I have done. The choice of what to do cannot be mine. I've surrendered that freedom for all time."

However, Jon is also a fan of watching possibilities develop naturally. That's why he was shown teleporting to some unknown planet and creating life of his own at the end of the series:
https://i.imgur.com/TW0WNBJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Z0LqtSo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HH8ZoBN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mMpj2Tt.jpg

*Fun fact: the above planet seems like it might be the same one that Manhattan teleported everyone to in Doomsday Clock, which is a cool nod by Johns:
https://i.imgur.com/jeWfylU.jpg

...And watching possibilities develop(namely the story of Superman) is exactly why he altered DC's timeline as well. Jon wanted to know *why* Superman was the center of the universe, so he caused a Crisis just to watch Superman's story unfold naturally:
https://i.imgur.com/asPt2tJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hnrDHpI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/H57Lcdy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7pQ4l3A.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QWOyGG5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6SXuO44.jpg

But despite the alterations he has made, Jon still considers himself a being of inaction:
https://i.imgur.com/lVWbARa.jpg

That's why everything he's done since causing the Crisis, he's done because it was now preordained and *had to* happen that way. I mean, he's purposefully keeping all the heroes alive(and incapacitated) on Mars, because they *need to* be alive/incapacitated in the future:
https://i.imgur.com/hANrdoL.jpg
"I need you all incapacitated for reasons that will become clear."

Anyway, Johns is obviously running fast and loose with Manhattan's powers in Doomsday Clock, but none of the time shenanigans he's preformed so far are entirely without precedent.

Originally posted by HueyFreeman
Lol "seeing how this story ends". That was also hannibal lecters goal. Doesnt necessarily make him "not evil"
Jon certainly isn't evil. But I suppose you can be a villain without being evil.

It's all about perspective.

Originally posted by Tar-Antado
So, it turned out the Surfer saved all of the heroes from the black hole and he is thriving inside it to boot. Pretty darn impressive feat by Norrin.

It was a dimensional breach/wormhole kind of black hole. Doesn't looks particularly good for Surfer to succumb to it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Sorry in advance for the breathy response. Just wanted to address this in detail...

This was answered in Before Watchmen. Manhattan is indeed able to travel into the past, to a time before his creation:
https://i.imgur.com/gzk8KmR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MIWTKvi.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/41j7TCR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kBhcDdy.jpg

But as he learned- if you're not careful, even the slightest nudge or alteration of the past can uncontrollably splinter the 'prime' reality into an infinite number of alternate realities:
https://i.imgur.com/JRkXGjr.jpg

Of course, Jon was ultimately able to destroy all of the alternate universes he had inadvertently created:
https://i.imgur.com/E6YzRAH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5EC5Baj.jpg

But in the wake of the above, Jon learned that he must essentially become a being of inaction and carry out his preordained roles as to not take away the choices of others:
https://i.imgur.com/QL8RrFo.jpg
"I am the most powerful being in the known universe. I can do anything. But for this world to be what it needs to be, what it must be, I must sacrifice my own choices, my own free will, so that they can have choices."

https://i.imgur.com/BzVO5UZ.jpg
"I have put myself into a box, and I fear that if I move again, I will undo all that I have done. The choice of what to do cannot be mine. I've surrendered that freedom for all time."

However, Jon is also a fan of watching possibilities develop naturally. That's why he was shown teleporting to some unknown planet and creating life of his own at the end of the series:
https://i.imgur.com/TW0WNBJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Z0LqtSo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HH8ZoBN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mMpj2Tt.jpg

*Fun fact: the above planet seems like it might be the same one that Manhattan teleported everyone to in Doomsday Clock, which is a cool nod by Johns:
https://i.imgur.com/jeWfylU.jpg

...And watching possibilities develop(namely the story of Superman) is exactly why he altered DC's timeline as well. Jon wanted to know *why* Superman was the center of the universe, so he caused a Crisis just to watch Superman's story unfold naturally:
https://i.imgur.com/asPt2tJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hnrDHpI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/H57Lcdy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7pQ4l3A.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QWOyGG5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6SXuO44.jpg

But despite the alterations he has made, Jon still considers himself a being of inaction:
https://i.imgur.com/lVWbARa.jpg

That's why everything he's done since causing the Crisis, he's done because it was now preordained and *had to* happen that way. I mean, he's purposefully keeping all the heroes alive(and incapacitated) on Mars, because they *need to* be alive/incapacitated in the future:
https://i.imgur.com/hANrdoL.jpg
"I need you all incapacitated for reasons that will become clear."

Anyway, Johns is obviously running fast and loose with Manhattan's powers in Doomsday Clock, but none of the time shenanigans he's preformed so far are entirely without precedent.

Jon certainly isn't evil. But I suppose you can be a villain without being evil.

It's all about perspective.

thx for this!

one theory i saw is that manny didnt even cause any of the events personally. some people think ozy might have stolen some of his power (which we know he can) and is using it to change things.maybe thats what is going on in dcu but manny hasnt said anything about it yet. maybe he doesnt even know?

what do you think about that one?

Originally posted by Tar-Antado
So, it turned out the Surfer saved all of the heroes from the black hole and he is thriving inside it to boot. Pretty darn impressive feat by Norrin.
u serious? surfer couldnt even break out of the black hole on his own and completely succumbed to it.

bad day for surfer

So who are the three entities in Q Conflict?

One of them looks like The Squire of Gothos. I assume one of them is a subspace entity?

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
thx for this!

one theory i saw is that manny didnt even cause any of the events personally. some people think ozy might have stolen some of his power (which we know he can) and is using it to change things.maybe thats what is going on in dcu but manny hasnt said anything about it yet. maybe he doesnt even know?

what do you think about that one?

It's Johns. There will undoubtedly be some sort of plot twist/big reveal near the end... And it will almost certainly involve Ozy, given that he hasn't played much of a part in this event [yet], and seems to be masterminding everything from the outside. Tbh, I think this cover is going to end up being pretty accurate:
https://i.imgur.com/67Y9Kd3.jpg

But as for Ozy being personally responsible for everything that has taken place via 'amping' himself with Jon's energy or w/e: I doubt it.

As far back as 'The Button' arc, we learned that Jon was the behind all of this...

Thawne was teleported to an unknown location, and then was destroyed after being 'ported back:
https://i.imgur.com/CVLTzRO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JhbYHeA.jpg
"GOD...GOD...I saw...GOD."

Flash deduced that whoever did this to Thawne was also responsible for all of the reality-altering shenanigans that have taken place in the DCU:
https://i.imgur.com/zIGSBvG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wel2GTl.jpg

Thawne was then able to reconstitute himself from the timestream, and sought out the being who had previously 'killed' him. After meeting this being face to face, Thawne is once again [permanently] unmade --likely by erasing him from the timestream entirely-- and "the button" is beamed away:
https://i.imgur.com/kccH4OL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0p3JqQz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wowaHJl.jpg

At the end of the same issue, we see the button laying on the ground, and Jon's hand reach down and pick it up:
https://i.imgur.com/plTorD3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7MCMvdg.jpg

We also know that Jon altered continuity because his symbol has overtaken the Book of Oa:
https://i.imgur.com/xbkGlYr.jpg

...But this is all secondary to Jon explicitly stating that HE, alone, purposefully altered reality to what it currently is. srug

thx again for breakdown.

i forgot how much manny was hyped up before this event lol. crazy

Galan will be pleased. 😖hifty:

FRANKENSTEIN Has a Posse in DC's GOTHAM CITY MONSTERS

Lex has his own council of alternate Lex's.

Jason Latour and Bryan Hitch Assemble the Interdimensional Council of Lex Luthors in Year of the Villain One-Shot

I love how JaxUr says that Jorel escaped the death of his planet and the obligation of raising his children. LOL

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Galan will be pleased. 😖hifty:

FRANKENSTEIN Has a Posse in DC's GOTHAM CITY MONSTERS

mmm

Might be good. 👆

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Lex has his own council of alternate Lex's.

Jason Latour and Bryan Hitch Assemble the Interdimensional Council of Lex Luthors in Year of the Villain One-Shot

Council of Reeds
Council of Dooms

...Council of Lexes.

Wonder if he's going to kill all of his alternates so that he is the only Lex in the multiverse(ala Nathaniel Richards)..?

so surfer created a mini sun and opened a rift in space time. nice feats for surfer

Originally posted by Galan007
mmm

Might be good. 👆

Council of Reeds
Council of Dooms

...Council of Lexes.


YouTube video