Originally posted by Astner
Like with everything it can be done well and it can be done poorly. But ignorance is never going to better something.If a writer wants to explore a philosophical question in a story, then he can do so concisely. This was done at the end of Watchmen. Alan Moore took utilitarianism, gave us a lurid example of it, and then asked us "is this right?" No bloated exposition involving the names of renowned philosophers or anything like that...just an example that we could all understand.
From the way the story had been told it's clear that Alan Moore had a good grasp of the subject he was tackling. He had read about it and he had thought about it. This is also why he didn't make any stupid mistakes when telling the story.
Lovecraft's cosmology wasn't explored in any significant detail, and that which was explored was purposely left chaotic, nebulous, or unrestrained.
Wuxia and Xianxia is just about a hero's journey into legend or godhood. It doesn't really have a focus on the cosmology. I'm not too familiar with these stories, since I've just watched a couple of donghua of the genres. But I'm not really getting the impression that they're written to promote some super-cosmology.
As for DC's cosmology...it seems to be revised every few issues, and whatever complexity arises is cut down. Just look at qwertyuiop1998's scan. Is the metaverse just the main universe now?
sorry can't respond too much of it my new sales job is killing me
lovecraft mythology is cool because it's ambiguous, give a really insanely broad world view then explore only a little bit leave imaginations for the readers. It's a good for older mythologies, leave you wanting for more.
dc is kinda different, they really explored their cosmology in a way where everything has it's structures with logic and reason behind it. this in some way limited the multiverse and dimensions but it also enriches the worlds because there are more contexts if that makes sense.
Marvel is more in the middle, not thoroughly explored with higher realms and outer beings like dc but more complex than the likes of lovecraft
lovecraft is so impressive though think about the time this actually came out
metaverse is always the main universe, this was thoroughly implied in doomsday clock.
xianxia is wacky shit, I was just using it as an example, they have some gems in there but it's so scattered. as a chinese american I don't even read them. no point for people who don't know chinese to touch them honestly but some concept in it were pretty insane.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998That seems to be the implication, yeah.
So does this imply Hypertime is an omniversal concept?
On one side of the coin you have the generic concept of space, which is represented by the Omniverse. On the other side of the coin you have the generic concept of time, which is represented by Hypertime. IOW: space = time; Omniverse = Hypertime.
Of course we know the Omniverse and Hypertime are far more complex than just being mere representations of space & time, but that diagram is obviously meant to simplify things down to the most basic level.
Originally posted by MrMind
lovecraft mythology is cool because it's ambiguous, give a really insanely broad world view then explore only a little bit leave imaginations for the readers. It's a good for older mythologies, leave you wanting for more.
Now why you decide to bring it up as a cosmological comparison reference is a bit weird since the only thing I can think of that goes into technical details is H.P. Lovecraft's colaboration work E.H. Price, Through the Gates of the Silver Key. But that's a bit confusing because DC doesn't have any story like that.
Originally posted by MrMind
dc is kinda different, they really explored their cosmology in a way where everything has it's structures with logic and reason behind it. this in some way limited the multiverse and dimensions but it also enriches the worlds because there are more contexts if that makes sense.
Originally posted by MrMind
Marvel is more in the middle, not thoroughly explored with higher realms and outer beings like dc but more complex than the likes of lovecraft
Originally posted by MrMind
metaverse is always the main universe, this was thoroughly implied in doomsday clock.
Originally posted by MrMind
xianxia is wacky shit, I was just using it as an example, they have some gems in there but it's so scattered. as a chinese american I don't even read them. no point for people who don't know chinese to touch them honestly but some concept in it were pretty insane.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
The super-cosmology are often Xianxia novels, which are different from donghuaBecause the writers of this genre only need to write their novels on the internet, It could be message boards, it could be some more formal websites etc....
Basically, they like fanfiction. You don't necessarily need much money or energy to construct them, thus some battle board posters are also capable of writing them......
Just imagine if Mr.Master were writing Marvel in past few years....or Carver were writing Hulk
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
@Barron-GhidorahYes, It seems to be like that. I'm surprised Vader in his run is rather cunning and strategic. Also I enjoy Ochi's portrayal in this run so far
Same here I’m happy he’s focusing on vaders intelligence.
Ochi’s one of my new favorite characters at this point. I also love that Sabe is back.
Do you have any idea how many issues of this run are left before it’s done?
Originally posted by Robtard
As it should be, the world is shifting more and more to secular views, which in kind is reflecting in humanities arts and literature.Or I'm just talking out of my ass...
True. But I always seen the gods both old and new as concepts. Even if they were miniscule onesike gods of hunt or wine..so even if they don't have they're traditional followers they still have mortals who walk those paths.
Originally posted by cdtm
They've been a joke since Morrison's Rock of Ages.Remember how quick Wonderworld or whatever fell?
Interesting....who let you back in the house?
Originally posted by Astner
[B]It's good because it's implicative and involves the reader to in the pictoral construction of scenes and their implications.Now why you decide to bring it up as a cosmological comparison reference is a bit weird since the only thing I can think of that goes into technical details is H.P. Lovecraft's colaboration work E.H. Price, Through the Gates of the Silver Key. But that's a bit confusing because DC doesn't have any story like that.
I brought up HP lovecraft because I'm pretty sure lovecraft lores were one of the very first cosmology where multiverse and higher realms with multiple gods made up a world view by one writer. with different books about the same universe.
My problem with it is that there doesn't seem to be any fixed idea of what it actually is supposed to be. Morrison's idea was very different from Snyder, which in turn was different very from Williamson's. But it's not like they're expanding on each other ideas either, instead they're redefining what's there.
there are def expanding elements, snyder did a lot of stuff following the sequnce of COIE, infinite crisis and Final Crisis, the "crisis reboot" cosmology if you will. Snyder is like the lovechild of Johns and Morrison. The magic side has gaiman, dematteis, carey all expanding on the Christianity side of DC.
but there are def too many sides that contradict with each other, which is why it's sorta difficult to define an official hierarchy. but it's getting better than 10 years ago
As far as I know Marvel never attempted to explain the cosmology in any detail. The cosmic elements are a backdrop.
marvel cosmic was not a backdrop, it has been established in the past and redefined after 2015 secret wars. it's not as detailed as dc but there were a lot of concepts that were introduced. it's more coherent because writers follow the script closely with each other
this was before doomsday clock redefined the metaverse. the prime universe now is the ever changing meta timeline, the main timeline spawn from the story of superman
Originally posted by Astnerthats what I was gonna ask. I'm a small lovecraftian fan and I just don't remember it being fleshed out ever
Like with everything it can be done well and it can be done poorly. But ignorance is never going to better something.If a writer wants to explore a philosophical question in a story, then he can do so concisely. This was done at the end of Watchmen. Alan Moore took utilitarianism, gave us a lurid example of it, and then asked us "is this right?" No bloated exposition involving the names of renowned philosophers or anything like that...just an example that we could all understand.
From the way the story had been told it's clear that Alan Moore had a good grasp of the subject he was tackling. He had read about it and he had thought about it. This is also why he didn't make any stupid mistakes when telling the story.
Lovecraft's cosmology wasn't explored in any significant detail, and that which was explored was purposely left chaotic, nebulous, or unrestrained.
Wuxia and Xianxia is just about a hero's journey into legend or godhood. It doesn't really have a focus on the cosmology. I'm not too familiar with these stories, since I've just watched a couple of donghua of the genres. But I'm not really getting the impression that they're written to promote some super-cosmology.
As for DC's cosmology...it seems to be revised every few issues, and whatever complexity arises is cut down. Just look at qwertyuiop1998's scan. Is the metaverse just the main universe now?
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
thats what I was gonna ask. I'm a small lovecraftian fan and I just don't remember it being fleshed out ever
Yeah, I'm barely a fan, but I could never figure out where in the world fanboys like Vsbattle.com get their narrative from.
Because it sure isn't Lovecraft cooking up these tiers, or making Cthulhu into an omniversal monstrosity who eats the Beyonder.
