Originally posted by carver9
Look at the scans, Sin...
I did.
Did you read the conversation between Pr, saint and myself? We already determined that he didn't outpace them and would have overtaken him if not for Wisdom of Zehuti which gave him the insight to use his beams against him.
The last panel is where you should focus
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWIf it weren't for all of the other sources referencing events from that particular series, I would completely agree. But frankly, you'd have to ignore quite a bit of material to believe it's non-canon, which is something I don't typically like to do.
I've seen you guys debating this numerous times, but in the end (pun intended), The End has its own designation number [Earth-4321] and... isn't that enough?
-It's referenced in Starlin's Thanos mini.
-It's referenced in the Thanos Sourcebook.
-It's referenced in the 2006 and 2008 OHOTMU bios for virtually every single cosmic being that Thanos killed.
-It's referenced in a few of the Fact Files.
-It's referenced in Starlin's newer Infinity arcs.
tl;dr
So yeah, I personally do think Starlin's "The End" is something of a special case regarding canonicity... That is to say: there's [a lot] more published material to suggest that it is canon, than there is suggesting otherwise.
Of course folks will disagree, and that's fine too. 👆
Originally posted by Sin I AM
I did.Did you read the conversation between Pr, saint and myself? We already determined that he didn't outpace them and would have overtaken him if not for Wisdom of Zehuti which gave him the insight to use his beams against him.
The last panel is where you should focus
Him being in front of them is him outpacing them. Eventually catching him, who knows but what we do know is he didn't get touched by them and was ahead of them the entire time which mean (drums please), he outpaced them.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Green doesn't look good on you my dear.
Charming, your wit is wasted on lesser beings
Originally posted by carver9
Then it's a ft for Black Adam then.
Lesser being.
Originally posted by carver9
Him being in front of them is him outpacing them. Eventually catching him, who knows but what we do know is he didn't get touched by them and was ahead of them the entire time which mean (drums please), he outpaced them.
No... Bladam may have been faster out the door but those beams were continuing to accelerate and he was losing ground hence tactic he eventually used. The scene isn't a speed feat (he was losing), strength feat (he needed the beams help) but it was certainly a tactical feat (wisdom)
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
We're talking about Marvel: The End.All other "The End" comics were never argued to be canon.
MTE is problematic, because Starlin is in love with his own work and keeps referencing it.
Oh okay, good.
Originally posted by Astner
I'm not a big DC buff...but isn't the Omega Beams an extension of the Omega Force that empowers Darkseid?
Technically yes, but writers can play fast and loose with the concept when it suits them, using the "omega effect" umbrella to explain all kinds of shite.
Originally posted by carver9
Show me where he was losing ground
lol.
Originally posted by Sin I AMLol. Elegant and savage.
Charming, your wit is wasted on lesser beingsLesser being.
Originally posted by Sin I AMThis is all true but it’s enough of a speed feat to show why DC heralds are typically just a cut above Marvels in a measure of power. I can imagine a ton of DC chars pulling off the same feat. I can imagine…. few Marvel ones. Just a different scale.
No... Bladam may have been faster out the door but those beams were continuing to accelerate and he was losing ground hence tactic he eventually used. The scene isn't a speed feat (he was losing), strength feat (he needed the beams help) but it was certainly a tactical feat (wisdom)
And I don’t have allegiance to either company, and I definitely read more Marvel. It just is what it is.
Originally posted by Smurph
Lol. Elegant and savage.This is all true but it’s enough of a speed feat to show why DC heralds are typically just a cut above Marvels in a measure of power. I can imagine a ton of DC chars pulling off the same feat. I can imagine…. few Marvel ones. Just a different scale.
And I don’t have allegiance to either company, and I definitely read more Marvel. It just is what it is.
Yes. I honestly don't know why Marvel doesn't close the gap in terms of speed. Maybe cuz Marvel is so focused on Earth based stuff and DC tends towards cosmic level shenanigans? The best speed feats from Marvel come from Quicksilver and Mjolnir... pretty damn sad
The first six issues [including this one] take place before the current storyline [Dark Crisis]. So whatever aspect of Darkseid it is, if that is a 'real' scene', remains to be seen when the comic comes out.
Nevertheless, Darkseid's Omega Beams being turned on himself [deflected or wild e coyote style] is a staple at this point. It's a good feat for Black Adam's combat skill/intelligence, if nothing else, though.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yes. I honestly don't know why Marvel doesn't close the gap in terms of speed. Maybe cuz Marvel is so focused on Earth based stuff and DC tends towards cosmic level shenanigans? The best speed feats from Marvel come from Quicksilver and Mjolnir... pretty damn sad
DC is a bit different because both the Flash and Superman can be many times faster than their peers. This is usually resolved with the Flash being clumsy or being assigned to protect civilians from falling debris and whatnot, and Superman is simply not using his super-speed most of the time. This is a bit worse because it gnaws on your suspension of disbelief.
Originally posted by Astnerit's an easy resolve though, just make more limiters like supes can use his hv but it taxes his power reserves is a good example, another trope that disappeared entirely was speedsters consuming shit tons of food because they burbedtso much enery
It's about balance and niche-protection, and super-speed is particularly problematic if not regulated. If Thor can resolve a problem before Captain America can even blink then what's the point of having Captain America on the same team?DC is a bit different because both the Flash and Superman can be many times faster than their peers. This is usually resolved with the Flash being clumsy or being assigned to protect civilians from falling debris and whatnot, and Superman is simply not using his super-speed most of the time. This is a bit worse because it gnaws on your suspension of disbelief.