yeah dc stories suck
but that shouldn't affect the powerscaling versus battles
all im saying is let's judge things fairly. i dont care for those scp and elder scroll crap but i know they are more powerful than dc.
being objective is basic fundamentals for adults. then again, they are childrens...
silly me
Originally posted by MrMind
im so ****ing done with comicvine and vsbattleslike we literally saw sbp beat the shit out of darkest knight and retcon punch the multiverse in death metal
and vsbattles/comicvine was like oh outlier, prime is still below skyfather level
To be honest, I don't think that the DC top-tiers are that powerful. It's more magic and super-technology that allows them to operate a universe- or multiverse level scale. And in case of Superboy Prime his retcon-punch certainly falls under that category.
In fact I think he even destroyed some of the dark universes when he clashed with the Darkest Knight just before he died. Granted, the dark universes were unstable, but still.
Oh, and Abhi will probably point out that he destroyed 3 universes when he used his retcon-punch to destroy the tuning-fork tower in Death Metal #4.
I interpret Superboy Prime as Superman-tier (or slightly higher) with an immunity to magic and the special retcon-punch. So high-herald tier is where I'd place him, but I could see him being put in the transcendent tier or the skyfather tier (although that would be a bit of a stretch).
Originally posted by Astner
I mean he died fighting him, right?To be honest, I don't think that the DC top-tiers are that powerful. It's more magic and super-technology that allows them to operate a universe- or multiverse level scale. And in case of Superboy Prime his retcon-punch certainly falls under that category.
In fact I think he even destroyed some of the dark universes when he clashed with the Darkest Knight just before he died. Granted, the dark universes were unstable, but still.
Oh, and Abhi will probably point out that he destroyed 3 universes when he used his retcon-punch to destroy the tuning-fork tower in Death Metal #4.
I interpret Superboy Prime as Superman-tier (or slightly higher) with an immunity to magic and the special retcon-punch. So high-herald tier is where I'd place him, but I could see him being put in the transcendent tier or the skyfather tier (although that would be a bit of a stretch).
i dont get this post, you just said he destroyed dark multiverse and fought darkest knight
and you know what darkest knight is capable of, multiversal at the very least, arguably omniversal as well.
yet you place sbp in high herald, and think trans or skyfather tier is stretch
is this comedy trolling?
what kind of skyfather can destroy universes and fight someone with the power of to erase multiverse
are we looking at this seriously, name me one trans character that did what sbp has done
is this the new way of trolling im not aware of？
dc is not so powerful
now that statement, it's hard to intepret
compare to marvel? yeah dc is marginally more powerful. but same realm
compare to most anime? yeah dc probably shits on them with the top feats.
let's disregard all those
all that lovecraft crap that vsbattles been spewing, none of it was written by hp lovecraft himself. just bunch of fanboys wanking it and try to make it so.
scp same thing, fanfic written by people who just want to powerscale, so yeah they are more powerful than dc but not by much. it's still in the same realm.
i am a big marvel hater and i know that marvel could compete in the ame realm of dc, elder scrolls, and certain xian xia novels. marvel come up short but it's not as hopelessly outclassed like let's say dragon ball would
but if we are talking about powerscaling fictions. marvel just doesn't really come close to the top. that's a given. the way toaa, regulator thanos, beyonder etc been written is just inferior. no hate but that's the way it is.
lucifer, great darkness, the writer, overvoid, dc's concept is higher than marvel. whether you wanna go morrison or the vertigo route. just by the way they write things.
so no dc is pretty damn powerful, compare to most verses. the only thing you can fault dc is being too superman centric that all other side of their stories lost it's values. but that's quality of writing has nothing to do with what we are discussing
Superboy Prime destroyed some of the dark universes that empowered the Darkest Knight when he hit him. This isn't really a quantifiable feat, since we're not familiar with the mechanics in play, and the fact that dark universes are unstable and eventually collapse on their own means that we can't assume that they're as durable as regular universes in good faith.
I don't think Superboy Prime could destroy universes under normal circumstances. Even when he wanted to destroy the universe at the end of Infinite Crisis he intended to charge into the Central Green Lantern Battery. I also don't think he could destroy galaxies or anything like that.
As for Marvel versus DC I'd say that Marvel is notably more powerful if we examine the cosmic side of things. DC doesn't have anything that corresponds to the Abstracts. Instead they have extra-dimensional aliens that are closer to the Celestials from Marvel than anything else.
As for the writer, he was killed off in Suicide Squad by a beastiamorph.
Originally posted by Astner
So is this limited to the Writer's appearance in Animal Man #26, or do we count his death in Suicide Squad #58 too?I mean, it's canon.
As for my comment "I don't think that the DC top-tiers are that powerful." What I meant was that I think they're overrated, mainly due to the fact that the nuances of power in the stories are ignored in favor of simplified Dragon Ball-type powerscaling arguments that don't apply.
Originally posted by Astner
Superboy Prime destroyed some of the dark universes that empowered the Darkest Knight when he hit him. This isn't really a quantifiable feat, since we're not familiar with the mechanics in play, and the fact that dark universes are unstable and eventually collapse on their own means that we can't assume that they're as durable as regular universes in good faith.I don't think Superboy Prime could destroy universes under normal circumstances. Even when he wanted to destroy the universe at the end of Infinite Crisis he intended to charge into the Central Green Lantern Battery. I also don't think he could destroy galaxies or anything like that.
As for Marvel versus DC I'd say that Marvel is notably more powerful if we examine the cosmic side of things. DC doesn't have anything that corresponds to the Abstracts. Instead they have extra-dimensional aliens that are closer to the Celestials from Marvel than anything else.
As for the writer, he was killed off in Suicide Squad by a beastiamorph.
As for my comment "I don't think that the DC top-tiers are that powerful." What I meant was that I think they're overrated, mainly due to the fact that the nuances of power in the stories are ignored in favor of simplified Dragon Ball-type powerscaling arguments that don't apply.
DC has a ton of absracts, too. The comprehensive list has been posted many times.
Originally posted by Astner
Superboy Prime destroyed some of the dark universes that empowered the Darkest Knight when he hit him. This isn't really a quantifiable feat, since we're not familiar with the mechanics in play, and the fact that dark universes are unstable and eventually collapse on their own means that we can't assume that they're as durable as regular universes in good faith.I don't think Superboy Prime could destroy universes under normal circumstances. Even when he wanted to destroy the universe at the end of Infinite Crisis he intended to charge into the Central Green Lantern Battery. I also don't think he could destroy galaxies or anything like that.
As for Marvel versus DC I'd say that Marvel is notably more powerful if we examine the cosmic side of things. DC doesn't have anything that corresponds to the Abstracts. Instead they have extra-dimensional aliens that are closer to the Celestials from Marvel than anything else.
As for the writer, he was killed off in Suicide Squad by a beastiamorph.
As for my comment "I don't think that the DC top-tiers are that powerful." What I meant was that I think they're overrated, mainly due to the fact that the nuances of power in the stories are ignored in favor of simplified Dragon Ball-type powerscaling arguments that don't apply.
Just Spectre is equal to living tribunal and a lord of Order Kismet is equal to Eternity. DC abstracts are notably more powerful than marvel as published by marvel comics themselves.
DC abstracts are considerably more powerful than marvel abstracts. Even someone like Living Tribunal can't create a universe ex nihilo (after it's complete destruction), in DC even someone like Zero Hour Parallax can do it.
Anyway you slice it, by crossover comparison or by feats, DC abstracts are considerably more powerful.
that's simply not true
mxy admitted himself he's weaker than manhattan. and from snyder's jl run we can clearly see perpetua was the bigger threat than him (granted mxy was depowered but it was due to perpetua being free from source wall)
perpetua and manhattan was near equal and was implied multiple time throughout death metal, you can add darkest knight in that tier as well. dk is basically bwl with manhattan power.
in one of the dc guidebook, it was specifically stated manhattan has power to alter the multiverse with a whim.
perpetua was described as the most feared out of all her race, the most feared out of the infinite multiverses, the most feared out of omniverse, by snyder.
when dk and perpetua battle, it affect every realities/dimensions. chronicler came all the way from the bigger omniverse just to document it. the chronicler was impressed by those two. this the same chronicler carrying the omniversal codex book that's basically book of destiny on steroids. documenting trillions of dead multiverses in dc. throughout history. and the main dc multiverse is one of infinity. the morrison map as vast and incomprehensible big as it's drawn, is one of infinity.
it was far higher level than the several times mxy battling batmite, even though they are capable of whipping up multiverse and destroying it during those fight. it's still just multiversal
dc has omniversal threats far above multiversal gods. when perpetua was trying to rebel. and her children snitched on her (like how you snitched on me)
the judges of the source aka the hand sent a cosmic raptor to oneshot perpetua with utter ease. a feat far above the likes of dk. and all those judges of the source were below the actual source/overvoid/presence aka god.
during the great darkness event it was said great darkness existence alone in the omniverse would cause the omniverse to cease it's existence.
so this is the scale
Originally posted by ODGYou want to rely mostly on powerscaling, sure, go ahead. That isn't invalid, after all. But then what exactly is your basis for criticism with Marvel?
^ Based on actual feats, most of "the top 10 in dc" don't even compare to mxy either though. So what exactly is the basis of your criticism towards marvel?
I agree with ODG here. The World's Funnest feat is unarguably the most impressive feat in Marvel-DC history, but it was an Elseworld's story never intended to be canon.
Originally posted by Astner
Every other straight-forward top ten feat belongs to Marvel.
Even if you want to consider it canon it's been retconned by more recent presentations of the character.
Then there's the issue with the lack of adherence to power scaling in DC.
World-Forger needed to channel on the energies Mr. Mxyzptlk and Bat-mite released by unraveling reality through his 10th metal anvil to create a new stable universe. In other words, Word-Forger could not create these energies himself.
- Justice League (2018) #23
I mean, you mentioned Perpetua, who at near full-power still drained herself destroying single universes.
Originally posted by Astner- One of the Justice League (2018) issues, forget which...I think it's around #24, but can't look it up at work.
- Death Metal: Multiverse's End #1.
Originally posted by MrMind
wtf do you think feats are?
Scaling on the other hand is when you imply that X can do what Y has done because X is more powerful than Y. Scaling is circumstantial and doesn't always work. Either because of the mechanics of the powers beings scaled, or because the stories are unrelated and Y isn't as powerful in this story as he was in the story where the feat in question is from.
Originally posted by Astner
I agree with ODG here. The World's Funnest feat is unarguably the most impressive feat in Marvel-DC history, but it was an Elseworld's story never intended to be canon.
He says all superhero stuff is make believe.
Every other straight-forward top ten feat belongs to Marvel.
Pretty strange that you have no scans of a marvel abstract's feat.
Even if you want to consider it canon it's been retconned by more recent presentations of the character.
😂
Then there's the issue with the lack of adherence to power scaling in DC.
And marvel is so good at power scaling, huh?
World-Forger needed to channel on the energies Mr. Mxyzptlk and Bat-mite released by unraveling reality through his 10th metal anvil to create a new stable universe. In other words, Word-Forger could not create these energies himself.
- Justice League (2018) #23
A new multiverse, not universe and he wasn't channeling energies. He needed the reality destroyed so that the hands don't detect his new multiverse suddenly replacing the old one.
I mean, you mentioned Perpetua, who at near full-power still drained herself destroying single universes.
Feats are things that characters have done. Normally when people discuss feats they implicitly refer to quantifiable on-panel feats. Stuff like destroying galaxies, universes, or the multiverse.
Name one marvel abstract who destroyed a universe on panel. Just one.
Scaling on the other hand is when you imply that X can do what Y has done because X is more powerful than Y. Scaling is circumstantial and doesn't always work. Either because of the mechanics of the powers beings scaled, or because the stories are unrelated and Y isn't as powerful in this story as he was in the story where the feat in question is from.
Hilarious coming from a marvel fanboy lol.
