astner has autism or is he just into getting humiliated? like how many times has he been plowed on the same subject and he's still spewing the same shit.
here comes the wf non canon again. marvel fanboys are so good at lying to themselves. he's literally stoop to alberto's level at this point
what a *****.
no im not gonna repost the same arguments and scans for the 5th times just to own you. there's better way to waste my time
keep spamming your bullshit astner.
What are you talking about? My argument is independent of whether you consider World's Funnest canon or not. The only reason I brought it up was because it's an Elseworld's story, and it was never anything else.
But even if you consider it canon that would only mean Mr. Mxyzptlk has been depowered, since he and his peers are nowhere near that level of power, as demonstrated in Death Metal, or even more recently in the imp story in World's Finest.
Originally posted by Astner
What are you talking about? My argument is independent of whether you consider World's Funnest canon or not. The only reason I brought it up was because it's an Elseworld's story, and it was never anything else.But even if you consider it canon that would only mean Mr. Mxyzptlk has been depowered, since he and his peers are nowhere near that level of power, as demonstrated in Death Metal, or even more recently in the imp story in World's Finest.
Isn't time in the 3rd (i.e. the DCU) all existing at the same time in the 5th or something like that - i.e. what is 'past' or 'future' or 'present' in DC's comics are meaningless to a 5d imp - it's all 'now'.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Isn't time in the 3rd (i.e. the DCU) all existing at the same time in the 5th or something like that - i.e. what is 'past' or 'future' or 'present' in DC's comics are meaningless to a 5d imp - it's all 'now'.
There are similar arguments you can make against Marvel. The account in Fantastic Four Annual #26 that attributes transfinite power to the Celestials hold no merit whatsoever regardless of what Marvel fanboys would like you to believe, because not only hasn't been consistently enforced, it's also been contradicted.
Originally posted by Astner
Those arguments have always been flimsy, but more importantly. But they're completely irrelevant because it's been contradicted since.There are similar arguments you can make against Marvel. The account in Fantastic Four Annual #26 that attributes transfinite power to the Celestials hold no merit whatsoever regardless of what Marvel fanboys would like you to believe, because not only hasn't been consistently enforced, it's also been contradicted.
So 'I don't like it, didn't happen'. OK.
Originally posted by Astner
Never said I didn't like it, or that it never happened. So I'm not sure how you arrived at either of those conclusions.
Implied through your use of the words 'flimsy' (implying you don't like it as an argument) and 'irrelevant' (again, I use the word implied to forestall you attempting to say 'well, it did happen, I am just saying it does not matter'😉.
Contradictions always occur, however. One week Character X can do this, then struggle/be unable to do Y. Holding comics to be some kind of solid 'truth' that never changes is a fool's errand, IMO.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Implied through your use of the words 'flimsy' (implying you don't like it as an argument)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
and 'irrelevant' (again, I use the word implied to forestall you attempting to say 'well, it did happen, I am just saying it does not matter'😉.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Contradictions always occur, however. One week Character X can do this, then struggle/be unable to do Y. Holding comics to be some kind of solid 'truth' that never changes is a fool's errand, IMO.
And I never said it didn't change. In fact my point was that these things do change. You can't rely on Morrison's ideas anymore, since a lot of them have been revised to fit Death Metal and Dark Crisis.
With Marvel it's even more straightforward. Starlin's intricately ordered cosmology holds little to no relevance for Marvel's current cosmology. But fanboys still cling to elements of it that were not only flimsy back then but has since been contradicted (for the sake of inflating power levels), for example the multiversal Infinity Gauntlet arguments.
Originally posted by MrMindFeats are actions that are performed.
wtf do you think feats are?
Yet most of your tl;dr post to me on dc cosmic hierarchy relied on scaling. I mean, you literally punctuated your tl;dr post with this sentence:
Originally posted by MrMindSo as I said before, scaling isn't inherently wrong so long as it's not reductive ABC logic. But you're in no position to belittle the marvel cosmic hierarchy for using scaling when most of what you said for dc cosmic hierarchy also relies on scaling.
so this is the scale
In short, don't be such an obvious hypocrite.
Originally posted by AstnerJust to be clear, that World's Finest story is one set sometime in the past. Most (if not all?) of Waid's entire series is set in some indeterminate time in the past.
What are you talking about? My argument is independent of whether you consider World's Funnest canon or not. The only reason I brought it up was because it's an Elseworld's story, and it was never anything else.But even if you consider it canon that would only mean Mr. Mxyzptlk has been depowered, since he and his peers are nowhere near that level of power, as demonstrated in Death Metal, or even more recently in the imp story in World's Finest.
Originally posted by carver9
It seems like Hulk has the power of One Below all stored in him based off the latest comic.
That's....someone different, no? A different fractured son, from ~4,000 years ago.
And I'd be cautious about sharing feats. Looks like Eldest beat that fractured son back in the past (i.e. TOBA isn't......all-powerful).
Originally posted by ODG
Feats are actions that are performed.Yet most of your tl;dr post to me on dc cosmic hierarchy relied on scaling. I mean, you literally punctuated your tl;dr post with this sentence: So as I said before, scaling isn't inherently wrong so long as it's not reductive ABC logic. But you're in no position to belittle the marvel cosmic hierarchy for using scaling when most of what you said for dc cosmic hierarchy also relies on scaling.
In short, don't be such an obvious hypocrite.
across all battle boards, feats are not just action performed, but also statements said and character's powerset/writer intentions.
especially when you are discussing cosmic/abstract beings. actions performed isn't the only measure stick. most comic writers not gonna write someone like pralaya destroy the multiverse by a fart just to show how powerful she is.
she doesn't need action. her intention and role itself define her power. the rest is just proving how big of a cosmology she is governing/claiming.
the reason we see mxy destroy create multiverse constantly. (even the most recent fight with batmite）is because mxy is a joke character who just want to battle and have fun.
mxy, has been canonized across all media, that's literally what was presented in comics. we all seen the scan.
the mxy that fuk with darkhorse multiverse
the mxy that appeared in wf
the mxy that appeared in the superman cartoon
etc etc
the 5th dimensional being existence is omniversal, it is not bound by the main dc multiverse.
and elseworld stories are all canon to dc due to hypertime
theres also dan didio saying this
DD: It’s so funny. We were looking at what the interpretation of ‘Elseworlds’ means right now. The funny part is, by putting all those stories in continuity, they’re no longer ‘Elseworlds,’ they’re part of the consistent universe, they’re just existing on a different plane. They’re not really ‘Elseworlds’ anymore.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's....someone different, no? A different fractured son, from ~4,000 years ago.And I'd be cautious about sharing feats. Looks like Eldest beat that fractured son back in the past (i.e. TOBA isn't......all-powerful).
Yes, but the energy was passed on to Hulk. We've seen Hulk have access to the door. He has that power.
Originally posted by MrMindI sharply disagree with your definition of "feats". But it's irrelevant to what I was bearing down on.
across all battle boards, feats are not just action performed, but also statements said and character's powerset/writer intentions.
If this is how you think, ok. Just pointing out that you then have absolutely no basis to criticize marvel cosmics. Just be consistent, mang.
Originally posted by MrMind
across all battle boards, feats are not just action performed, but also statements said and character's powerset/writer intentions.
I mean, if I say: "Usian Bolt's most impressive feat is running 270,000 miles per hour." I'm suggesting that it's something he's actually done. Not that there's some throwaway news headline out there calling him as fast as lighting.
As for the writer's intent: not only is it almost always impossible to discern, sometimes things are purposely left to be open to interpretation. Even Ewing made it clear that unless it's on a published page it doesn't count.
Originally posted by Astner
But even if some other writer was to disagree. They're just contracted freelancers, it's the editors that are responsible for the contextualization of individual stories within the overarching canon.
Originally posted by MrMind
especially when you are discussing cosmic/abstract beings. actions performed isn't the only measure stick. most comic writers not gonna write someone like pralaya destroy the multiverse by a fart just to show how powerful she is.she doesn't need action. her intention and role itself define her power. the rest is just proving how big of a cosmology she is governing/claiming.
Originally posted by MrMind
the reason we see mxy destroy create multiverse constantly. (even the most recent fight with batmite）is because mxy is a joke character who just want to battle and have fun.
Originally posted by MrMind
mxy, has been canonized across all media, that's literally what was presented in comics. we all seen the scan.
This interpretation doesn't even make sense because Mr. Mxyzptlk has died in an Elseworlds story, Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow in Action Comics #583.
But I'm not sure why you're even bothering with this since Mr. Mxyzpltk limits were established in the recent World's Finest story. You can't just whip together and excuse to ignore that.
Originally posted by abhilegend
DC abstracts are considerably more powerful than marvel abstracts. Even someone like Living Tribunal can't create a universe ex nihilo (after it's complete destruction), in DC even someone like Zero Hour Parallax can do it.Anyway you slice it, by crossover comparison or by feats, DC abstracts are considerably more powerful.
Hahaha I forgot about that. 👆