Comic Book Questions & Discussion

Originally posted by ODG
(i) purple prose from a throwaway tagline ad from Death Metal [/B]

After all, we have the bio states such
Batman The Ultimate Guide New Edition (2022)
https://ibb.co/jDd0rQN

We've the writer's interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQAGmBZPhdQ&t=4648s

Originally posted by ODG
[b](ii) an allusion to a PC Superman meme made in an alternate reality future Wonder Woman daughter's adventure[/B]

This is not the first time the Wonder Woman character has had a daughter, with characters like Hippolyta Trevor's Fury and Stephanie Trevor's Wonder Girl on other DC Earths. However, Lizzie is, as of now, seemingly Wonder Woman's only canon, mainline daughter.

"I think it’s safe to say we’ll see more of that future as we move forward with the story in 'Wonder Woman,' which centers around how that future came to be. But it’s important to add that the main focus of 'Wonder Woman' the book will be Wonder Woman the hero."

You also have the main universe present time WW's story mentions Trinity(the character from the "alternate reality" future you claimed)
https://ibb.co/dWRDz51

Originally posted by ODG
(iiii) the way a sign displayef "Superboy" in a never-before-seen (even in PC history) flashback.

Originally posted by ODG
You've got it backwards, son. I didn't push any of the company-wide retcons upon DC. DC itself did. In the wake of Death Metal, you are hoping those retcons were undone. But you're grasping at the thinnest of straws despite what current DC comics are amply showcasing, e.g., World's Finest.

You have an argument, yes. It's a flimsy one.

While you have an argument, but it's a flimsy one at best

Plus, funny you mentioned that "in the wake of Death Metal, you are hoping those retcons were undone"
As DC itself pretty much says the same idea

When our heroes saved the Multiverse from Perpetua in Dark Nights: Death Metal, everything was put back where it belonged...and we do mean everything. All the damage from all the Crises was undone, and heroes long thought gone returned from whatever exile they had been in.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol

Tell me again how Injustice has multiple universes...

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Are you sure it's purple prose. Or it's just a, like you said before, an intent that you projected into the comics?

Originally posted by ODG
Given Mark Waid has been indiscriminately re-writing the past of Superman and Batman's past, it's an intent that's not just inferred but demonstrated on-panel.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

And then you've The Abominable Snowman(Doctor Phoenix version)
https://ibb.co/cbxL4WV
Who is only has Pre-Crisis appearances before Infinite Frontier(I.E, after Death Metal he was brought back)
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/abominable-snowman/4005-36853/issues-cover/

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

IT'S ALL CANON.

https://www.cbr.com/15-jimmy-olsen-transformations-that-were-bonkers-af/

Human Porcupine was from 1962
Human Octopus was 1959
Human Flamethrower, Elasti-man, TurtleMan - they're all PreCrisis.

Also, WW is not the mightiest hero. Lol@DC going out of their way to emphasise that.

Edit: Also, Zha-Vam is PreCrisis as well.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
It also worth noting that Jimmy also gets his Flamebird identity back. Superman and Jimmy are Nighting and Flamebird in Kandor is a pre-crisis thing also

The point is, I don't think there are any explicitly proofs that can reject the Death Metal's all history is restored's re-retcon

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
And Mark Waid constantly brings up Pre-Crisis elements, I also can say the exact opposite it proves. DC pushes all eras, including pre-crisis, become one timeline

What we have seen Mark Waid do is rewrite DC continuity the way he wants. Which indiscriminately discards more pre-Crisis history than it does post-Crisis history.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
The point is, I don't think there are any explicitly proofs that can reject the Death Metal's all history is restored's re-retcon

Just admit it.

Originally posted by ODG
I never denied that PC elements were sprinkled throughout current continuity. Superboy Prime was a purely PC character and I never denied his place in current DC continuity. Not once. You're arguing with an imaginary poster to avoid my pointed criticism.

What we have seen Mark Waid do is rewrite DC continuity the way he wants. Which indiscriminately discards more pre-Crisis history than it does post-Crisis history. Straw-man. But your taglines, meme allusions and Easter eggs do not rise to the level of newly retold on-panel continuity.

Just admit it.

Not to mention it's so weird to use a complete different writer(who is still bringing up pre-crisis history) to determine whether the line is a purple prose in a comic that isn't written by him.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So...there are no explictly proofs that can support your it's just a "purple prose from a throwaway tagline ad from Death Metal",

Originally posted by ODG
Other than current comics like World's Finest literally refuting and retconning pre-Crisis history by retelling the first meetups of Superman/Batman and Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You forgot this:

"We used to have adventures...you miss those days".

From wiki:

A direct reference to PC comics!

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

And Superman recently met pre-crisis Terra-Man, Terra-Man directly says he and superman has their fair share of run-ins
https://ibb.co/zPRRz95
https://ibb.co/54mttpH

This is Pre-Crisis Terra-Man, who is a space cowboy
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/7/76/Tobias_Manning_Earth-One_0001.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20240114140943
This is Post-Crisis Terra-man, who is a Poison Ivy rip-off
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/b/b9/Terra-Man_002.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091029030619

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Black Adam's issue directly refers a story from Golden Age comics

https://ibb.co/n6CzwZv

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/All-American_Comics_Vol_1_26

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah.

Death Metal made clear it was all one timeline now:

Then the latest Superman Red/Blue comic showcased this, as Superman remembers (and the editor, Jamie Rich, directly confirms it) doing something in World's Finest 192-193, which was released in 1970 (i.e. pre Crisis):

Like I said before, your position seems like just slippery slope fallacy, and when you toss some retcons I can also toss some references.
But I think the very important difference is that, in my position I've pretty explict proofs, while yours seem to project your own opinions/rejections to what the comics/DC explictly say

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Or the WF puts and accepts many pre-crisis history, as show above and this

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
And many other writers use pre-crisis characters/history

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Like I said before, your position seems like just slippery slope fallacy, and when you toss some retcons I can also toss some references.
But I think the very important difference is that, in my position I've pretty explict proofs, while yours seem to project your own opinions/rejections to what the comics/DC explictly say

As opposed to a) the rest of current DC comics pretty much ignoring pre-Crisis since Death Metal wrapped up, AND b) specific current DC runs like Mark Waid's World's Finest addressing the early adventures of Superman and Batman (and Wonder Woman) and utterly retconning away pre-Crisis depictions.

But, no. The absence of a hyphen in a PC Superboy billboard during a flashback overrides the complete retcon depicted by World's Finest #30 that just now re-re-retconned the first adventure of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman.

Bruh. If that's the comparison you're relying on, methinks the slippery slope is on your side, mang.

Originally posted by ODG

This ain't Bizarro-world, son. You are reduced to relying on [b](i) purple prose from a throwaway tagline ad from Death Metal, (ii) an allusion to a PC Superman meme made in an alternate reality future Wonder Woman daughter's adventure, and (iiii) the way a billboard displayed "Superboy" in a never-before-seen (even in PC history) flashback.
[/B]

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Are you sure it's purple prose. Or it's just a, like you said before, an intent that you projected into the comics?

After all, we have the bio states such
Batman The Ultimate Guide New Edition (2022)
https://ibb.co/jDd0rQN

We've the writer's interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQAGmBZPhdQ&t=4648s

Care to prove it's an alternate reality?
I mean, you've the article states this
https://thedirect.com/article/wonder-woman-daughter-dc-official

You also have the main universe present time WW's story mentions Trinity(the character from the "alternate reality" future you claimed)
https://ibb.co/dWRDz51

Superman's Superboy' career is pre-crisis, a sign that features Superman's Superboy/when he was a teen is pre-crisis

Funny, I can the exact opposite. I didn't push the idea of the retcons were undone, the DC did in Death Metal. And ever since then the current DC comics are amply showcasing pre-crisis elements

While you have an argument, but it's a flimsy one at best

So what DC published/wrote is a tagline that we should ignore because you say so? I mean, just a page ago you said we shouldn't project our intents into DC/Marvel, yet, you seem to be doing the exact thing
Also I want some explicity proofs that Trinity story is alternate reality. Aside from the material I posted above, in Trinity Special also has Trinity asks the Sovereign what happened in the past(the present), with a note it is continued in Wonder Woman book, in which Sovereign narrates the main universe events to Trinity
https://ibb.co/FhsX2Kv

As for

Originally posted by ODG

As opposed to [b]a) the rest of current DC comics pretty much ignoring pre-Crisis AND b) specific current DC runs like Mark Waid's World's Finest addressing the early adventures of Superman and Batman and utterly retconning away pre-Crisis depictions. [/B]

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
LMAO, just because you're butthurt doesn't mean everyone else can't read.
Interesting enough, in the recent Wonder Woman comic I found this comment
https://ibb.co/2gcKm85
So it doesn't seem it just us saying Silver Age is canon, some random comic fans also accept the notion that it's canon(and also doesn't seem to only one writer takes the "everyhing is canon" notion, as Wonder Woman comics are written by Tom King)

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So what DC published/wrote is a tagline that we should ignore because you say so?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
That's purely subjective, and in the realm projects your personal feelings into DC
I can also counter you Wonder Woman, Superman, Action Comics, Dark Crisis, Black Adam, JSA etc all recognizing pre-crisis so it isn't pretty much ignoring
You read the WF as it retconing Pre-Crisis depictions, other persons read it as it constantly refers back to pre-crisis days
For example

Sorry but the absence of a hyphen in "Super-boy" in a billboard during a flashback does not override the current re-re-retcon of Superman/Batman's first adventure or the current re-re-retcon of Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman's first adventure.

You have entire comics dedicated to re-re-retconning pre-Crisis history that are currently being published in marquis titles. So what position are you trying to peddle that pre-Crisis history has been completely preserved/restored?

Originally posted by ODG
But, no. The absence of a hyphen in a PC Superboy billboard during a flashback overrides the complete retcon depicted by World's Finest #30 that just now re-re-retconned the first adventure of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman.

Bruh. If that's the comparison you're relying on, methinks the slippery slope is on your side, mang.

Originally posted by ODG
Well, when the DC writers are ignoring it, yes? That's not purely subjective. It's objective. Because the current comics are not slavishly following pre-Crisis continuity, let alone re-establishing it. Indeed, other than random Easter egg allusions and your own contrivances, DC writers are completely ignoring it and even re-writing it.

Sorry but the absence of a hyphen in "Super-boy" in a billboard during a flashback does not override the current re-re-retcon of Superman/Batman's first adventure or the current re-re-retcon of Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman's first adventure.

You have entire comics dedicated to re-re-retconning pre-Crisis history that are currently being published in marquis titles. So what position are you trying to peddle that pre-Crisis history has been completely preserved/restored?

On the other hand

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
LMAO, just because you're butthurt doesn't mean everyone else can't read.
Interesting enough, in the recent Wonder Woman comic I found this comment
https://ibb.co/2gcKm85
So it doesn't seem it just us saying Silver Age is canon, some random comic fans also accept the notion that it's canon(and also doesn't seem to only one writer takes the "everyhing is canon" notion, as Wonder Woman comics are written by Tom King)

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
LMAO...just for your information, I posted on other places such as reddit or the comic comments section.
Yet, I can have a normal conversation with them. I mean, I can have a normal conversation with Smurph, DS etc on this forum

On the other hand, you are the one who constantly don't accept the idea of Death Metal has untied the timeline. Despite the comics, bios, interviews etc indicate otherwise

A certain amount of fans also hold similar ideas as mine.
For example, when interpret AC 1057 scene where Conner was shown his past versions(including the N52 version), DC fandom reasoned it is likely a result of the "unknotting" of the timeline

The scene
https://ibb.co/SyF2XRL
DC fandom's explanation
https://ibb.co/dpSx5tn

Or another person can also read the scene in recent Superman, and connects it with WF, then gives the conclusion that it's a sign different from post-infinite crisis and Superman's past is closest to pre-crisis ever been

Woah, Clark as Superboy in public, enough so Smallville's even proud of being his home. Even Secret Origin had him as a secret anonymous hero outside of the Legion. Interesting.

I guess it makes sense with World's Finest showing how the new past is the closest to Pre-Crisis it's ever been.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Except the hyphen is noticed in the comic? As Dawnstar notices the difference in the scan I posted above

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Also, how is a retcon to Superman/Batman/Trinity first meeting has anything to do with Superboy's example?

So far, you have taglines, meme allusions and contrived Easter eggs. Whereas I am confronting you with complete comic issues that refute/retell/retcon the original presentation of pre-Crisis events.

Stop being such a tw@t. You are not abhilegend. You're not even abhilegend's better half. You're better than that. Either accept on-panel evidence or don't. And if you don't, stop insisting you have any avenue to continue constructive discourse.

Originally posted by ODG
How do you not understand that I am mocking you over your obsessive preoccupation over hyphen use as if it were determinative of pre-Crisis history restoration??? How Superboy or Super-boy is hyphenated in a comic is somehow evidence that all of pre-Crisis history was or was not restored???? Don't pretend to be so goddamned stupid.

And if you want to get a bit further, Smallville is even proud of being his home/Superboy seems to go public in there which is different from post-crisis version but more tied to pre-crisis version

Originally posted by ODG

So far, you have taglines, meme allusions and contrived Easter eggs. Whereas I am confronting you with complete comic issues that refute/retell/retcon the original presentation of pre-Crisis events.

Stop being such a tw@t. You are not abhilegend. You're not even abhilegend's better half. You're better than that. Either accept on-panel evidence or don't. And if you don't, stop insisting you have any avenue to continue constructive discourse.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Because
1) Superboy is a pre-crisis element
2) The Superboy that post-infinite crisis brought back has a difference in spelling on the present time which separates from pre-crisis version.

Yet you're accusing me of utilizing a slippery slope? There's nothing left to discuss really, mang.

Originally posted by ODG
So the presence/lack of a hyphen of a character's name duiring a random flashback (that's not even part of pre-Crisis history) should override entire comic issues that completely retell pre-Crisis continuity that are currently being published.

Yet you're accusing me of utilizing a slippery slope? There's nothing left to discuss really, mang.

And then you came here, say that the recent WF, which doesn't even mention Superboy, somehow contradicts it? Or try to use it as a proof that it completely invalidates Death Metal's statement and many other sources

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
No, like I said before, I don't see either contradict each other.
The recent Superboy scene has several indications that seem more like Pre-Crisis Superboy