Comic Book Questions & Discussion

BTW, Immortal Thor #17 was wild.

The direct references to prior storylines that Al Ewing had nothing to do with... I don't think I've ever seen that many callbacks/references in a single mainstream comic issue before. Handbooks, sure. Anthologies, yea. Maybe even year-end annuals, ok???

But Al Ewing directly references/places Thor in the same void before his resurrection in J. Michael Straczynski's seminal run.

Simultaneously, Ewing brought back Donald Blake. But not the same as JMS' run. No, he juxtaposes the currently corrupted Donald Blake from Donny Cates' storyline where Donald Blake was imprisoned as the new "God of Lies" by Loki and Blake's binding with a symbiote.

Ewing also used like four of the first dozen supervillain foes Thor has ever fought in his Journey Into Mystery history by Jack Kirby: Cobra, Mr. Hyde, Radioactive Man and Grey Gargoyle.

On that last part, Ewing had Grey Gargoyle be tormented over Thor's stone form shattering due to his part during Matt Fraction's Fear Itself and his massacre in Paris as Mokk, the Breaker of Faith.

And that cadre of classic Thor villains was brought together by Dario Agger who prominently featured in Jason Aaron's run.

But then Thor was saved by Enchantress because she said she wanted her dead son, Iric, to be resurrected by Thor's Odinpower. Iric showed up in Skottie Young's Strange Academy series.

But then Thor was suspicious and asked about Enchantress' other "son", Ove. You see, Ove, was an alternate future son that she conceived with Namor but fought (and lost to) Carol Danvers during Kelly Thompson's Captain Marvel vol.10 run. But Enchantress swore an oath this had nothing to do with Ove. Which was true. Nah, it turns out that...

Spoiler:
Enchantress never intended to resurrect either Iric nor Ove. No, she was aware of alternate future children due to her meeting Ove. But she explored further and found another son from another alternate future she wanted to resurrect. She tricked Thor into resurrecting Magni, the God of Strength, borne from King Thor and Enchantress during Dan Jurgens' run in The Reigning.

I don't know about you guys... but Al Ewing is like the biggest comic book nerd. And I am all for it.

Originally posted by ODG
What it means is that we can both inarguably agree that Wolverine directly attributes Ba'al's failure/shock to his adamantium-lined bones.

This is responsive to my question. You said that there was no explicit evidence in the comics that his limbs are not detachable, and that it was a "forum-created myth". And yet there is explicit evidence on that point.

I'm not saying that the Ba'al scan resolves the entire question. I'm just saying it clearly refutes your allegation that I'm making shit up.

As for the rest of your post:

Originally posted by Smurph

From earlier this year

Ripping his arm off just degloves the whole limb. He keeps fighting away with his skeleton arm while the flesh regrows around it.

Guess I was wrong about things changing with the Krakoa era.

Do you think the result would have been different here if the monster was stronger?

Yeah, I think it should be more direct - there is no explicit evidence that his joints/tendons/ligaments are unbreakable/adamantium.

With regards to the whole pre/post Krakoa thing, that was only ever something we on the forum came up with to try and explain that Logan scene - he's always had comparably weaker joints and tendons (see statements like with Spider-man, and actual scenes like with Nightcrawler/Sabes/gorillas).

And those scans? Artistic licence. Until we have actual explicit statements that his joints are adamantium, all we have are a combination of PIS (Ba'al, the sole scan that is contradicted in the next issue) and artistic licence (almost everything else). The rest that is not covered by those two (such as Hulk and War) are easily explained by differing explanations (War not wielding his sword with a surgeon's skill, Hulk not using his full strength whilst holding razors AND Logan actually straining).

Originally posted by ODG
BTW, Immortal Thor #17 was wild.

The direct references to prior storylines that Al Ewing had nothing to do with... I don't think I've ever seen that many callbacks/references in a single mainstream comic issue before. Handbooks, sure. Anthologies, yea. Maybe even year-end annuals, ok???

But Al Ewing directly references/places Thor in the same void before his resurrection in [b]J. Michael Straczynski's seminal run.

Simultaneously, Ewing brought back Donald Blake. But not the same as JMS' run. No, he juxtaposes the currently corrupted Donald Blake from Donny Cates' storyline where Donald Blake was imprisoned as the new "God of Lies" by Loki and Blake's binding with a symbiote.

Ewing also used like four of the first dozen supervillain foes Thor has ever fought in his Journey Into Mystery history by Jack Kirby: Cobra, Mr. Hyde, Radioactive Man and Grey Gargoyle.

On that last part, Ewing had Grey Gargoyle be tormented over Thor's stone form shattering due to his part during Matt Fraction's Fear Itself and his massacre in Paris as Mokk, the Breaker of Faith.

And that cadre of classic Thor villains was brought together by Dario Agger who prominently featured in Jason Aaron's run.

But then Thor was saved by Enchantress because she said she wanted her dead son, Iric, to be resurrected by Thor's Odinpower. Iric showed up in Skottie Young's Strange Academy series.

But then Thor was suspicious and asked about Enchantress' other "son", Ove. You see, Ove, was an alternate future son that she conceived with Namor but fought (and lost to) Carol Danvers during Kelly Thompson's Captain Marvel vol.10 run. But Enchantress swore an oath this had nothing to do with Ove. Which was true. Nah, it turns out that...

Spoiler:
Enchantress never intended to resurrect either Iric nor Ove. No, she was aware of alternate future children due to her meeting Ove. But she explored further and found another son from another alternate future she wanted to resurrect. She tricked Thor into resurrecting Magni, the God of Strength, borne from King Thor and Enchantress during Dan Jurgens' run in The Reigning.

I don't know about you guys... but Al Ewing is like the biggest comic book nerd. And I am all for it. [/B]

It was a bit corny in places, but I also really enjoyed WW.

This has just been textbook moving the goalposts:

Originally posted by Smurph

There are depictions of his skeleton with adamantium connecting the bones.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

This is all I've been asking for, for several times now, across multiple threads. No one has posted this, so if you have it, then stop teasing me you ****.

Originally posted by Smurph

Limbs stay attached as a skeleton after being nuked
https://imgur.com/a/wolv-nuke-logan-2008-2-rxfUN

And again https://imgur.com/a/wolv-blasted-by-genocide-uncanny-x-force-2010-14-16-gE2jX

And again (actually moving his hand here) https://imgur.com/7DtbhNS

Then there's the Nitro feat and how his skeleton was depicted on that cover:
https://imgur.com/SDm7fj0
Cover

Originally posted by Smurph
Days of Present Past death

Young X-Men death

Originally posted by Smurph

From earlier this year

Ripping his arm off just degloves the whole limb. He keeps fighting away with his skeleton arm while the flesh regrows around it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

And those scans? Artistic licence.

He literally had all the flesh ripped from his arm and kept fighting with it in skeleton form. Exactly like Stilt said:

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

When it works for his story's needs, Wolverine's skeleton is one fully-functional interconnected structure with no weak points to speak of. The way it has always been, ever since Claremont and Byrne.

There is no other explanation for why Wolverine's arm didn't rip away with his flesh but for his adamantium. There is no other explanation for why he could keep fighting with said arm but for his adamantium. "Artistic license" just amounts to denying that the feat happened at all.

Originally posted by Smurph
This has just been textbook moving the goalposts:

He literally had all the flesh ripped from his arm and kept fighting with it in skeleton form. Exactly like Stilt said: Depictions of his skeleton as one fully-functional interconnected structure. When this argument started, you claimed that was "all I've been asking for". When you're shown them, you claim "artistic license".

There is no other explanation for why Wolverine's arm didn't rip away with his flesh but for his adamantium. There is no other explanation for why he could keep fighting with said arm but for his adamantium. "Artistic license" just amounts to denying that the feat happened at all.

But I've said it from the start, that it was just art. Same way his teeth are shown when everything else is burnt off, yet it's also shown to be pearly white.

No other explanation? I gave two. Nobody argues that Hulk's pants and Logan's teeth are adamantium, yet you would deny that the teeth and pants are the most durable items in the Marvel U.

Or maybe you would. But you and Leo were pretty cowardly in just handwaving it and well... ignoring it

Originally posted by abhilegend
Obviously Carver is trying to claim that Superman's walking can shake entire marvel universe, right carvster?

🤦🏿

Originally posted by carver9
🤦🏿

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh sorry, I forgot only hulk gets to shake the universe in carververse. Carry on lad.

Hulk has never shook the Universe. I just used him as an example.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk has never shook the Universe. I just used him as an example.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But I've said it from the start, that it was just art. Same way his teeth are shown when everything else is burnt off, yet it's also shown to be pearly white.

No other explanation? I gave two. Nobody argues that Hulk's pants and Logan's teeth are adamantium, yet you would deny that the teeth and pants are the most durable items in the Marvel U.

Or maybe you would. But you and Leo were pretty cowardly in just handwaving it and well... ignoring it

say what now? what exactly did i handwave away and ignore? i've said--REPEATEDLY--that the depiction of logan and his skeleton have been inconsistent. so does it surprise me someone drew adamantium teeth? lol no though you seem rather fixated on it as though each pearly white were a little gleaming carver. you're doing what you typically do--look for clever analogies that have nothing to do with the specific issue being talked about. this is a case where there is contradictory evidence, yet you seem to want a singular answer. that's on you, not us, or at least not on me. have there been times where it appears his skeleton and tendons and everything else are connected and unbreakable? yes. smurph showed that. are there times at odds with that? yes. spidey is an example when logan claimed he could snap his neck. this isn't earth shattering news, nor is it something that should surprise...anyone? it's frickin wolverine. no one should be surprised by anything they see when they look closely at him. i don't get what's so hard to grasp about...any of this /shrug

Preview of Superman 20 does confirm that Darkseid killed Doomsday in Hunter/Prey and he evolved to defeat Darkseid.

Originally posted by leonidas
say what now? what exactly did i handwave away and ignore? i've said--REPEATEDLY--that the depiction of logan and his skeleton have been inconsistent. so does it surprise me someone drew adamantium teeth? lol no though you seem rather fixated on it as though each pearly white were a little gleaming carver. you're doing what you typically do--look for clever analogies that have nothing to do with the specific issue being talked about. this is a case where there is contradictory evidence, yet you seem to want a singular answer. that's on you, not us, or at least not on me. have there been times where it appears his skeleton and tendons and everything else are connected and unbreakable? yes. smurph showed that. are there times at odds with that? yes. spidey is an example when logan claimed he could snap his neck. this isn't earth shattering news, nor is it something that should surprise...anyone? it's frickin wolverine. no one should be surprised by anything they see when they look closely at him. i don't get what's so hard to grasp about...any of this /shrug

It wasn't even an analogy - or clever, tbh - it's literally the same.

We see Wolverine, his entire body burnt away apart from his skeleton and his teeth .

This scan is used as proof that his tendons and ligaments are super durable, whilst ignoring that.....we can clearly see the artist's rendition of his teeth in the same scan. Yet we ignore one but hold up the other.

Originally posted by leonidas
say what now? what exactly did i handwave away and ignore? i've said--REPEATEDLY--that the depiction of logan and his skeleton have been inconsistent. so does it surprise me someone drew adamantium teeth? lol no though you seem rather fixated on it as though each pearly white were a little gleaming carver. you're doing what you typically do--look for clever analogies that have nothing to do with the specific issue being talked about. this is a case where there is contradictory evidence, yet you seem to want a singular answer. that's on you, not us, or at least not on me. have there been times where it appears his skeleton and tendons and everything else are connected and unbreakable? yes. smurph showed that. are there times at odds with that? yes. spidey is an example when logan claimed he could snap his neck. this isn't earth shattering news, nor is it something that should surprise...anyone? it's frickin wolverine. no one should be surprised by anything they see when they look closely at him. i don't get what's so hard to grasp about...any of this /shrug

Wolverine can fight with a completely skeletal arm, and his joints keep the limb attached to his body when everything else gets torn off. So no, his connective tissue is not "human-like". Skeletons fall apart and cannot mechanically function on their own. Wolverine does not fall apart and remains functional, so something incredibly durable holds it all together. He says it's his adamantium. Hulk says it's his adamantium. Banner says it's his adamantium. Lady Deathstrike says it's his adamantium.

There are contradictions, sure. My point has always been that it's not some made up forum myth. If that's what wolverithmetics is supposed to mean, then this ain't it. And it's not a "Hulk's pants" thing or an artistic detail like teeth on a skull - his joints are somehow protected and he can keep manipulating the limb when reduced to adamantium. Teeth and hulk's pants are inessential details that have nothing to do with the feats; the mechanics of Wolverine's arm are central to the feat. It's a stupid comparison.

Idc if you chalk it up to connective microchains or beta adamantium or maybe it's like Cyber's adamantium skin... whatever. Fan theories are fun but unnecessary.

Contradictions do abound though. Another one is that Dr Doom beheaded Logan in a psychic illusion in A + X (which, is that even canon?) and noted that the space between vertebrae isn't protected... but when Cyclops ran the danger room scenario to put down Wolverine, he had Magneto remove the adamantium so Namor could fly in and rip his head off... both illusions, saying opposite things. Meh, comics.

Doomsday is without question superior to Hulk.

Lol... no he isn't.

Originally posted by Smurph
Ditto to all of that.

Wolverine can fight with a completely skeletal arm, and his joints keep the limb attached to his body when everything else gets torn off. So no, his connective tissue is not "human-like". Skeletons fall apart and cannot mechanically function on their own. Wolverine does not fall apart and remains functional, so something incredibly durable holds it all together. He says it's his adamantium. Hulk says it's his adamantium. Banner says it's his adamantium. Lady Deathstrike says it's his adamantium.

There are contradictions, sure. My point has always been that it's not some made up forum myth. If that's what wolverithmetics is supposed to mean, then this ain't it. And it's not a "Hulk's pants" thing or an artistic detail like teeth on a skull - his joints are somehow protected and he can keep manipulating the limb when reduced to adamantium. Teeth and hulk's pants are inessential details that have nothing to do with the feats; the mechanics of Wolverine's arm are central to the feat. It's a stupid comparison.

Idc if you chalk it up to connective microchains or beta adamantium or maybe it's like Cyber's adamantium skin... whatever. Fan theories are fun but unnecessary.

Contradictions do abound though. Another one is that Dr Doom beheaded Logan in a psychic illusion in A + X (which, is that even canon?) and noted that the space between vertebrae isn't protected... but when Cyclops ran the danger room scenario to put down Wolverine, he had Magneto remove the adamantium so Namor could fly in and rip his head off... both illusions, saying opposite things. Meh, comics.

Then we can use another example, like any time cybernetics are involved. Doc Ock (off the top of my head). Do we argue he has super strong legs/body, when comics literally contradict it? It is physically impossible for him to do what he does without tearing his body in half the first time he tries to throw or lift something heavy.

You said his tendons are the same as a human's. In light of the scene I posted, that clearly isn't the case.

Doc Ock isn't relevant.

Originally posted by Smurph
You said his tendons are the same as a human's. In light of the scene I posted, that clearly isn't the case.

Doc Ock isn't relevant.

Very relevant.

His joints and tendons (in his knees and ankles and hips, for example) are as tough if not tougher than Wolverine's. In comics, we see Doc Ock casually lifting and walking around with all this added weight despite having the body of a fat 50 year old guy.

Long-standing PIS/ artistic licence, where for the sake of comics we do not question his joint integrity. Just like we don't question Logan's.

But it does not mean Otto and Logan have superhuman tendon/joint strength.

lol that's some nonsense. They're completely different characters with completely different sci fi elements at play. Also this thing about Doc Ock would rely entirely on headcanon implications whereas Wolverine has multiple scenes depicting and commenting on his joint integrity.

If you had a scan of someone trying to tear off Ock's leg, asking why he can't, and Ock saying that it's because of his cybernetics, then I would agree that there's a basis for comparison. But if you had that scan, then I might not agree that Ock's joints are merely human.

As is though, something can be true for Wolverine and not necessarily for Doc Ock. Or vice versa.