Or maybe he means whilst it exists, it isn't explicit evidence that the limbs are completely nondetachable (emphasis mine).
Moreover he himself says:
Third, while I can still readily admit that those scans "strongly imply" Wolverine's adamantium-coated bones make it that much incredibly harder to pull his arms out of their shoulder sockets, that's not the same as "literally" impossible.
"Why can't I *unh*rip this phonebook in half?"
"Thick paper"
=/=
'This phonebook is literally impossible to rip apart', or 'This is explicit evidence that phonebooks are impossible to tear'
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Yeah, agreed, it's not evidence about all phonebooks, it's just evidence about that phonebook. And as a standalone statement it doesn't mean that tearing is impossible. It is only evidence (without dismissing the possibility of contrary evidence) that the quality that kept that phonebook from tearing was the thickness of the paper.
Or maybe he means whilst it exists, it isn't [b]explicit evidence that the limbs are completely nondetachable (emphasis mine).Moreover he himself says:
"Why can't I *unh*rip this phonebook in half?"
"Thick paper"=/=
'This phonebook is literally impossible to rip apart', or 'This is explicit evidence that phonebooks are impossible to tear' [/B]
Of course, if the answer isn't "the thickness of the pages" but rather "adamantium", that would introduce a bunch of other evidence beyond the limits of this analogy about whether that means that tearing the phonebook is even possible.
Anyway, that Ba'al scan is from Wolverine 13.
Wolverine 14:
Wolverine was in danger of having his neck broken there. Despite his adamantium bones.
Pretty clear that his joints and ligaments aren't as tough. AND this is with the (relatively) clearest cut piece of evidence.
WANK!!!!!
Edit:
Yeah, I think that this is what we are agreeing on:
Originally posted by Smurph
And as a standalone statement it doesn't mean that tearing is impossible.
Originally posted by Smurph
Wriggling? He was laying prone and looking in a different direction.He also had his healing factor turned off there. Strange that he could just easily tank an executioner blow to the neck from War like that. He must not have been in much danger in Wolverine 14 after all.
Not sure what having no healing factor has to do with preventing damage?
Healing factors do what they say on the tin - it heals damage done. Doesn't stop damage being done.
Considering how small the discs of cartilage are in the neck, any movement would - especially with a large blade like that - make the blade catch on unbreakable adamantium. A smaller blade and a more accepting Wolverine - like with Beast and a generic steel pocketknife - would be more successful.
Wish I had those scans to hand.
But let me get this straight: you're now questioning Wolverine's thought processes when facing Ba'al in Wolverine 14, but accepting Wolverine's thought processes when facing Ba'al in Wolverine 13?
Originally posted by Smurph
It used to be impossible. Ultimate Wolverine could get pulled apart but not 616 Logan.
Just a reminder of everyone's initial position.
that only supposes wolverine wasn't just exaggerating in that scan. obviously he's been crushed by stronger and never been in fear of his neck being broken. if it were that easy any number of villains could break his neck and end him. there are times when a writer has seemed to believe his neck could be broken (see spidey v wolverine) and his arms could be torn out and other times they seemed to think otherwise for whatever reason. he's never been a terribly consistent character. i stopped debating his a long time ago. him or batman are losing propositions. nothing to do with logan math and everything to do with different writers seeing his abilities a little differently. maybe now that they have painted a definitive direction, it will be more consistent.
Originally posted by leonidas
that only supposes wolverine wasn't just exaggerating in that scan. obviously he's been crushed by stronger and never been in fear of his neck being broken. if it were that easy any number of villains could break his neck and end him. there are times when a writer has seemed to believe his neck could be broken (see spidey v wolverine) and his arms could be torn out and other times they seemed to think otherwise for whatever reason. he's never been a terribly consistent character. i stopped debating his a long time ago. him or batman are losing propositions. nothing to do with logan math and everything to do with different writers seeing his abilities a little differently. maybe now that they have painted a definitive direction, it will be more consistent.
So Wolverine #13, vs Ba'al - GOSPEL
Wolverine#14, vs Ba'al - HERESY
Got ya.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Right, healing factors heal damage done. And since he has no healing factor, it's all the clearer what damage was done. He's bleeding out at the neck in the next page but fighting and walking and apparently fine so ... fleshy damage but no broken neck or tendons. Strange, innit? Like Leo said:
Not sure what having no healing factor has to do with preventing damage?Healing factors do what they say on the tin - it heals damage done. Doesn't stop damage being done.
Considering how small the discs of cartilage are in the neck, any movement would - especially with a large blade like that - make the blade catch on unbreakable adamantium. A smaller blade and a more accepting Wolverine - like with Beast and a generic steel pocketknife - would be more successful.
Originally posted by leonidas
i mean are you saying ds that his tendons are just...human like? well that certainly can't be the case.
As for a "more accepting Wolverine" - again, he was prone and looking away, and War (an omega mutant horseman with thousands of years of war under her belt) had an unobstructed shot. I get that you're picturing "wriggling" between the panels but that's not supported by anything on the page.
Originally posted by leonidasNope. Both thought processes are accepted. Just because he can tank attempts at beheading doesn't mean he wants to.
But let me get this straight: you're now questioning Wolverine's thought processes when facing Ba'al in Wolverine 14, but accepting Wolverine's thought processes when facing Ba'al in Wolverine 13?
Originally posted by leonidas👆
Just a reminder of everyone's initial position.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So Wolverine #13, vs Ba'al - GOSPEL
Wolverine#14, vs Ba'al - HERESYGot ya.
eh? he never says his neck is going to break. and it never DID break. in the other his arms are NOT torn off and he says it's because of adamantium. i don't see a contradiction. the pretty pics support both scenes. thing is--i'm even saying it's impossible for his neck to be broken. hell spidey could have done it (allegedly). i'm just saying that there have been times in the past where that doesn't seem possible. /shrug
Originally posted by leonidas
eh? he never says his neck is going to break. and it never DID break. in the other his arms are NOT torn off and he says it's because of adamantium. i don't see a contradiction. the pretty pics support both scenes. thing is--i'mnot even saying it's impossible for his neck to be broken. hell spidey could have done it (allegedly). i'm just saying that there have been times in the past where that doesn't seem possible. /shrug
Originally posted by leonidas
eh? he never says his neck is going to break. and it never DID break. in the other his arms are NOT torn off and he says it's because of adamantium. i don't see a contradiction. the pretty pics support both scenes. thing is--i'm NOT even saying it's impossible for his neck to be broken. hell spidey could have done it (allegedly). i'm just saying that there have been times in the past where that doesn't seem possible. /shrug
quoted in order to edit. and kmc is so damn finicky lol oh and smurph: 👆
Question for my math geniuses and comic nerds. I cant confirm this but lets say if both DC and Marvel universe is infinite in size in this example.
If Hulk was fighting Hyperion and their fight was shaking Marvel universe (which again is infinite in size), if we transported them to DC Universe, could they replicate the same ft or is DC and Marvel definition and examples of infinite different from each other? Im asking for a reason. Or would you say infinite is infinite, no matter the space?
Well, before the either retardedly biased DC or marvel fan starts in. Yes, infinite is infinite unless it states an actual size of the universe.
Now getting into the actual cosmology of each company is going to be different. I mean they are both past multiverses and it's kind of getting stupid in my opinion.
Originally posted by carver9
Question for my math geniuses and comic nerds. I cant confirm this but lets say if both DC and Marvel universe is infinite in size in this example.If Hulk was fighting Hyperion and their fight was shaking Marvel universe (which again is infinite in size), if we transported them to DC Universe, could they replicate the same ft or is DC and Marvel definition and examples of infinite different from each other? Im asking for a reason. Or would you say infinite is infinite, no matter the space?
Originally posted by SmurphWhat it means is that we can both inarguably agree that Wolverine directly attributes Ba'al's failure/shock to his adamantium-lined bones.
Agreed.I confess that although this isn't the first time that ODG has repeatedly pointed at me and said "wolverithmetics!" I still have no idea what that's supposed to mean.
So I'll wait to hear if reading the words on the page is that.
What it means is that while we both can easily agree adamantium-lined bones would make it incredibly hard to pull apart someone's skeletal structure, that is not the same as it being physically impossible by someone else who might be stronger than Ba'al.
What it means is that if you were to arbitrarily set Ba'al as the upper limit of physicality that would test this notion, you ought to offer some proof that nobody stronger than Ba'al could perform better.
What it means is that if you were called out on measuring Ba'al's strength compared to other characters that have tried the same, you ought to do more than just sit on your hands and plead ignorance.
What it means is that if you're just going to sit on your hands and rather act like I'm the one being pedantic, that's completely on you. Not me. After all, I've got the on-panel proof that shows otherwise.
What it means is that every thing I just said? It actually would've remained true before and after it's been irrefutably shown on-panel that Wolverine's skeleton can be pulled/severed apart at the joints given enough super strength/surgical precision.
What it means is that I shouldn't have to pander to anybody, least of all you, over this.