Vader would stomp Kylo, tbh. His feats are just laughably superior across the board.
Luke's exact line to Rey was: "I've seen this raw strength only once before, in Ben Solo. It didn't scare me enough then. It does now." Which, if taken at face value, does indicate that Rey and Kylo's latent potential may have surpassed that of Vader. However, Luke also stated the following in Mando S02: "[Grogu] is strong with the Force, but talent without training is NOTHING."
Vader had both gargantuan potential/talent(the highest midi-count in galactic history, which literally elevated him to deity-level), AND he had decadeS-worth of formal Jedi/Sith training + dozenS of actual wartime battles with(and against) some of the most powerful Force-users the galaxy has ever known.
Flip side, even IF Kylo had more untapped potential than Vader, he still had nowhere near the level of proper training, practical experience, or even the natural(and absurdly broken) "growth-to-training" ratio that Luke himself had... Thus "The Rule of Luke" dictates that Kylo's greater raw potential is neg'd by his vastly inferior training.
👆
But yeah, destroying his bunker/prison while weakened was a good TK feat for Kylo... Just lmk when he effortlessly claps a skyscraper or something:
...Then I can take the lipservice a bit more seriously. There's a reason why Kylo fangirled over Vader until they day he died, ffs(bro literally spent his downtime asking a cremated helmet for guidance, lol.) The ALE itself couldn't make Vader's mental hold over Kylo any more complete. Kylo wants to be his slave -- he's a lowkey dirty girl, tbh.
tl;dr
Vader is. 👆
I'm also not sure that Luke's statement could even be taken as a comparison as between Kylo and Vader.
Luke never knew Anakin. So he has no comparison about Ben Solo's starting point/raw strength vs Vader's starting point. Comparing Ben against Vader would be raw strength against honed ability. And, he made no comparison as between Kylo and Vader.
My impression hasn't been that Luke "senses" that Vader's midichlorian count = X and training = Y and together, power level = Z.
Seems more likely that his statement is just comparing Rey against every other raw potential force user he's encountered, and saying there was only one other in the same echelon, and training him was a mistake.
Imo, in the context of the scene(ie. after Luke saw Rey 'unleash' and dive into the dark side or w/e) it was basically: "You and Ben have more raw power than anyone I've ever encountered, and it terrifies me"... And since Luke has also encountered other very powerful Force-users like: Kenobi, Ahsoka, Grogu, Leia, Yoda, Vader, Palpatine, etc. that'd be a pretty bold statement if taken at face value. Especially when Vader is the literal Chosen One who was conceived by the Force itself, and should have more raw Force strength at his disposal than any 'natural' being could ever attain(as mentioned, he's literally deity-level at full potential), but I digress...
Anyway, I'm just saying that even IF we assume Kylo and Rey actually did have greater raw power/potential than Vader, it's ultimately irrelevant since "talent without training is nothing." IOW, Force potential does not always produce equal parts actualized power, without equal parts training and personal/spiritual growth to progressively level-up. Granted, those with greater raw potential can obviously level-up much faster, but they still need [a lot of] external guidance to get there... That's also why Anakin/Vader never properly ascended to The Father's level, for example(even though we know he had the potential to.) Point being: Kylo having more untapped potential than Vader would not give him the auto-win either way -- potential is worthless in a fight if it cannot be actualized/realized/weaponized.
So yeah, I'm basing my opinion that Vader > Kylo on feats, not Luke's random one-liner. Plus, TLJ Luke was still going through that sickening "Waaaahhh!! One of my students went bad, so the whole Jedi Order just needs to die now! Waaaahhh!!" gimmick at that point, so I'm not sure how reliable his emo-rants were anyway -- dude was still trying to cover up how he attempted to murder his own nephew, ffs. /shrug
Fair, but if Kylo's and Rey's raw force strength is above Vader's, then wouldn't Kylo become potentially more dangerous if he were being overpowered and backed into a corner? One of those rage out moments that skyrockets him above Vader.
That's how most other kinds of finctional energy sources work anyway. 😮
Originally posted by Infinaut616This alleged Force-superiority didn't help Rey when she was 'backed into a corner' against Snoke... Or help Kylo when he was backed into a corner against the weakened and near-dead Palpatine clone.
Fair, but if Kylo's and Rey's raw force strength is above Vader's, then wouldn't Kylo become potentially more dangerous if he were being overpowered and backed into a corner? One of those rage out moments that skyrockets him above Vader.That's how most other kinds of finctional energy sources work anyway. 😮
So no. Until Kylo's feats rival Vader's, that singular line from Luke really doesn't matter. Vader, for example, also had the potential to absolutely obliterate Palpatine, but he was never able to actualize that potential while alive... Hence why Palpatine is still resoundingly > Vader in canon, despite having inferior raw potential. 👆
Vader beats Kylo every single time, is what I'm saying. 👆
My question is WTF is this ?!
https://ibb.co/7tVJJLJT
Originally posted by Facee
My question is WTF is this ?!
https://ibb.co/7tVJJLJT
Flashes suck; what else is new.
They were controlled by Ivy and King is obsessed with Catwoman, too.
Not to mention that, statistically speaking, there is a good chance that Selina stopped the black one from committing a crime.
Originally posted by Facee
My question is WTF is this ?!
https://ibb.co/7tVJJLJT
Flashes were mind-controlled at the time, by Poison Ivy. Only Batman and Catwoman weren't, in the entire world:
Note how King explicitly mentions context, and even has Batman realising that the Flashes are approaching....
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Well, that just about wraps up Batman with prep on the forum.
Insane feats for Batman this week (on top of being wanked to high Olympus last week):He:
*hacks an unhackable system*
*punches an angel out*
*has equations that can stop time/ALL PHYSICS over a short zone (8ft radius) or the entire universe*Beastly.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, and the explicit stuff isn't even as crazy as the implied stuff here.Batman (or at least, his sub persona) could upload consciousness into Amazos. Ok.
What's crazier is that he implies he casually took consciousness from Batmen from across the Multiverse. I mean, back in the day we'd argue Tony Stark with prep would break out Sol's Hammer or a Celestial Buster....but this is an entirely different plane of fighting.
Almost one year ago, to the day, lmao.
Originally posted by Philosophía👆
Well, that just about wraps up Batman with prep on the forum.
It's the same thing as with Superman, where I'm like... How do you possibly lock Batman down to one level in the Tiers thread? The dude just appears on the battlefield, and universal threats retreat, ffs.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Flashes suck; what else is new.They were controlled by Ivy and King is obsessed with Catwoman, too.
Not to mention that, statistically speaking, there is a good chance that Selina stopped the black one from committing a crime.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flashes were mind-controlled at the time, by Poison Ivy. Only Batman and Catwoman weren't, in the entire world:Note how King explicitly mentions context, and even has Batman realising that the Flashes are approaching....
Now go get your shine boxes.