The Great Wall Shutdown

Originally posted by Robtard
My point which I clearly focused on was the 'Mexico paying for it' aspect. That was never going to happen; it was a lie out of his lying mouth.

Which is only 1 element of the "Build a complete US-Mexico Border Wall."

If it gets built, even if he is out of office, the promise is Mostly-Met on the Trump-O-Meter.

If it gets built with indirect taxes to Mexico, Mexico paid the for the wall and it becomes 100% met.

I know you hate this concept and you want Trump to lose so badly but it's not an impossible scenario. It's net even slightly impossible. It's a probable scenario and we need to deal with the fact that we may waste billions of dollars on a stupid-ass wall that does nothing.

I made a thread about this. Adam_Poe wrote-up an even better list. Someone in this thread had a good quote on it: it would be symbolic, only, but do nothing but waste money.

Indirect taxes now? Lolz. Okay then.

Reality: Mexico's not paying for it. If Mexico was in any form, Trump wouldn't have thrown a tantrum and shut down the government after making a deal with Democrats and then backing out of said deal because Rush Limbaugh and a few other Far-Right talking heads called him a pussy.

I understand that we may waste billions on a useless wall, that's not my point. It was that Mexico's not paying for it. We will. Me and you and every other working taxpayer so Trump and a minority of voters (ie Trumpers) can feel good about their inadequate sexual prowess.

Originally posted by Robtard
Indirect taxes now? Lolz. Okay then.

Is this new to you? Were you not aware this was one of Trump's tactics?

This is actually what has been sold as one of the ways he will get Mexico to pay for the wall. I don't think you are unaware of this. It was a pretty big deal.

Regardless, here's Trump's Trump-O-Meter:

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

Despite the fact that politifact was caught many times having a left-lean, I am still surprised at how much Truth is in Trump's scores, there. I thought Trump lied about things he didn't even need to lie about.

Trumps said many a thing on how Mexico will pay for the wall, from "tariffs" (which isn't Mexico paying), to the wall paying for itself because Mexicans cost us whatever billions he's pulled out of his anus that day.

In the end, Mexico isn't paying for the wall, we are, if it ever gets built in the first place.

Originally posted by Robtard
Trumps said many a thing on how Mexico will pay for the wall, from "tariffs" (which isn't Mexico paying), to the wall paying for itself because Mexicans cost us whatever billions he's pulled out of his anus that day.

The exporter obviously pays the tariffs. It is economically short-sighted to think that the importing country will not eventually pay for an increased tariff because the cost is increased for the good being imported.

But it's not as simple as say, "Americans pay for the tariff." No, Mexico would pay for the increased tariff. All Mexican companies would be forced to pay that tariff. And Americans may switch to American goods or other foreign goods that cost less. Which harms Mexican businesses. Americans won't magically pay for the more costly Mexican goods especially if those costs rise above American good costs.

And keeping those dollars in the US is already one of the talking points Trump has had for ages. You think Trumpers are going to be upset that we have to pay 30 cents more for some domestic avocados or $12 more for a Vizio TV that had to be manufactured in the US due to the cost-benefit not being there for Mexico? No, they will celebrate. And be happy about it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The exporter obviously pays the tariffs. It is economically short-sighted to think that the importing country will not eventually pay for an increased tariff because the cost is increased for the good being imported.

But it's not as simple as say, "Americans pay for the tariff." No, Mexico would pay for the increased tariff. All Mexican companies would be forced to pay that tariff. And Americans may switch to American goods or other foreign goods that cost less. Which harms Mexican businesses. Americans won't magically pay for the more costly Mexican goods especially if those costs rise above American good costs.

And keeping those dollars in the US is already one of the talking points Trump has had for ages. You think Trumpers are going to be upset that we have to pay 30 cents more for some domestic avocados or $12 more for a Vizio TV that had to be manufactured in the US due to the cost-benefit not being there for Mexico? No, they will celebrate. And be happy about it.

I believe that is wrong and I double checked. A tariff is almost always paid by the importer; not the exporter.

What Is A Tariff And Who Pays It?

"A tariff is a tax on imported goods. Despite what the President says, it is almost always paid directly by the importer (usually a domestic firm), and never by the exporting country. Thus, if the US imposes a tariff on Chinese televisions, the duty is paid to the US Customs and Border Protection Service at the border by a US broker representing a US importer, say, Costco." -snip

Which in turn the company passes the increase (or part there of) to the consumer, ie you and me. So in regards to Trump's Tariff-Wall idea, we'd still be paying for it.

Speaking of: Trump supporter eyes moving factory to Mexico over tariffs

A supporter of President Trump is considering moving his company's production headquarters to Mexico in an effort to avoid Trump's tariffs on Chinese imports, according to The New York Times.

Pat LeBlanc, the chairman of EBW Electronics, voted for Trump in 2016 but told the Times that the tariffs are "killing us."

“I just feel so betrayed. If we fail because the company is being harmed by the government, that just makes me sick," he added, saying that he expects that his profits in 2019 will be cut in half because of the tariffs -snip

Trump's silly trade wars are harming US companies and Americans.

Originally posted by Robtard
I believe that is wrong and I double checked. A tariff is almost always paid by the importer; not the exporter.

What Is A Tariff And Who Pays It?

"A tariff is a tax on imported goods. Despite what the President says, it is almost always paid directly by the importer (usually a domestic firm), and never by the exporting country. Thus, if the US imposes a tariff on Chinese televisions, the duty is paid to the US Customs and Border Protection Service at the border by a US broker representing a US importer, say, Costco." -snip

Which in turn the company passes the increase (or part there of) to the consumer, ie you and me. So in regards to Trump's Tariff-Wall idea, we'd still be paying for it.

Speaking of: Trump supporter eyes moving factory to Mexico over tariffs

A supporter of President Trump is considering moving his company's production headquarters to Mexico in an effort to avoid Trump's tariffs on Chinese imports, according to The New York Times.

Pat LeBlanc, the chairman of EBW Electronics, voted for Trump in 2016 but told the Times that the tariffs are "killing us."

“I just feel so betrayed. If we fail because the company is being harmed by the government, that just makes me sick," he added, saying that he expects that his profits in 2019 will be cut in half because of the tariffs -snip

Trump's silly trade wars are harming US companies and Americans.

And that is an outright lie about how tariffs work.

The importer pays the tariff, yes. They are a broker. The middle-man. But their fees to the exporting company, a Chinese company, increase to cover those costs.

So tariffs are a tax on middlemen?

Not usually. This is where the question of who pays tariffs gets trickier — because middlemen tend to pass on their costs.

A company that contracts with an importer will almost always see the costs of that contract rise after a tariff has been imposed on goods it imports. So now the company is paying, say, 10 or 25 percent more to bring in the exact same product it imported before the tariffs.

It's actually useless to specify the middleman as the entity that pays the tariff and it probably the most dishonest representation on how the system actually works. You think they would even exist if overnight, all their margins disappeared? Of course not, they are always drawn up in MSAs (master service agreements) or ad-hoc contracts. And the terms are almost always explicitly outlined as "cost+taxes" to avoid the political messes like a stupid president.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-to-lay-out-line-on-china-trade-1537213209

Well done, Gaylords, for making this thread ****ing boring.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Well done, Gaylords, for making this thread ****ing boring.

Adam_Poe already completely destroyed any semblance of a good idea that this stupid dumbass wall might be. In reality, the most important fact happened 1998 when The Undertaker threw Mankind off Hell In A Cell, and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer's table.

I don't think I ever mentioned this on the forum, but I agree with DDM that Trump is a actually rather good at keeping his campaign promises. He did promise a lot of bs but from day one I was pretty surprised of how adamant he was on putting effort to implement his policies. That's one thing I can't fault him for and makes him a surprisingly effective politician. If people looked at his effort at keeping his promises he could as well be reelected.

I have help this opinion pretty much since the start of his government and he hasn't failed to keep up with his efforts so far.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Trump?

As long as the politician makes a reasonable effort, they tried. It's stupid to expect a politician to deliver things if they are opposed every step of the way. But you should hold them accountable for efforts. That's your job as the voter.

Do you think Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will get free-college tuition implemented? What about Medicare-For-All? No? But these are her primary platform points - her fundamental promises. Are you going to equally condemn her for not delivering those within her term or are you going to be reasonable and require her to make every reasonable effort to reach those goals?

I sure wouldn't condemn her for not delivering those things. That would be stupid and idiotic. 🙂 Wait a minute...are you stupid and idiotic? Surely not. Surely you aren't that dense...right? Surely you understand how retarded it is to use "participation trophy" as a talking point. Else you condemn every single Democrat in office. fear

I am sorry, did Ocasio-Cortez explicitly promise her constituents free-college the way Trump promised his the wall?

Or is this more special rules from Trump?

Because it is one thing to say, "Vote for me and I will work to establish tuition-free public college and trade schools," and "Vote for me and I will build the wall."

Originally posted by dadudemon
Trump?

As long as the politician makes a reasonable effort, they tried. It's stupid to expect a politician to deliver things if they are opposed every step of the way. But you should hold them accountable for efforts. That's your job as the voter.

Do you think Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will get free-college tuition implemented? What about Medicare-For-All? No? But these are her primary platform points - her fundamental promises. Are you going to equally condemn her for not delivering those within her term or are you going to be reasonable and require her to make every reasonable effort to reach those goals?

I sure wouldn't condemn her for not delivering those things. That would be stupid and idiotic. 🙂 Wait a minute...are you stupid and idiotic? Surely not. Surely you aren't that dense...right? Surely you understand how retarded it is to use "participation trophy" as a talking point. Else you condemn every single Democrat in office. fear

Bingo, but dipshits will try to spin it.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I am sorry, did Ocasio-Cortez explicitly promise her constituents free-college the way Trump promised his the wall?

Or is this more special rules from Trump?

Because it is one thing to say, "Vote for me and I will work to establish tuition-free public college and trade schools," and "Vote for me and I will build the wall."

As long as she puts as much effort into it as farting, she'd get a pass it seems.

Trump promised the wall, he promised/boasted Mexico would pay for it and he said he'd get it done because he's the best "deal maker" in the world. "Nobody makes better deals than me."

Lol@ this cult:

Students Slam 'Trump' Wall Quotes, Then They Learn Who Actually Said Them

I love it.

Originally posted by riv6672
Nvrmnd, i thought this was about THE Great Wall.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I am sorry, did Ocasio-Cortez explicitly promise her constituents free-college the way Trump promised his the wall?

Yes. 😬

Are you not aware of her platform? She didn't make it a secret. She preached her platform for ages.

Medicare For All - I support this
Housing As a Human Right - I am mixed
A Peace Economy - I am mixed
A Federal Jobs Guarantee - I oppose this
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban - I oppose this, I want to go the opposite direction and make gun control laws federal but not as strict. But make conceal and carry laws federal but more strict than some states.
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons - Super support this
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE - Support this. Abolish DEA as well.
Solidarity with Puerto Rico - Support this. Make them a state.
Mobilizing Against Climate Change - Support this somewhat.
Clean Campaign Finance - Support this. I go further - impolement anti corruption act which already is written and has been passed in some cities.
Higher Education / Trade School for All - I disagree mostly.
Women's Rights - Disagree with the details on this. This is a waste of time as the pendulum has swung too far the wrong way.
Support LGBTQIA+ - Depends on the details.
Support Seniors - Who doesn't support this?
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall - I disagree. Needs to be reformed.

https://ocasio2018.com/issues

And she explains her positions on each issue. They are clickable. I've posted about her campaign platform, before, detailing which ones I agree with (which I did, above)

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Or is this more special rules from Trump?

Yes, this is more special rules. But it is special anti-Trump rules where you don't hold Dems to the same standards you are trying to hold Trump to. TDS to the max.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Because it is one thing to say, "Vote for me and I will work to establish tuition-free public college and trade schools," and "Vote for me and I will build the wall."

No it's not. 😐

A campaign platform is a campaign platform is a campaign platform. They are all promises. Don't create special rules because you don't like the fact that your point is terrible.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-promise-tracker/?utm_term=.081ce05416b9

Originally posted by Robtard
As long as she puts as much effort into it as farting, she'd get a pass it seems.

Trump promised the wall, he promised/boasted Mexico would pay for it and he said he'd get it done because he's the best "deal maker" in the world. "Nobody makes better deals than me."

No, she needs to put in quite a bit of effort to get a pass. This is her full time job, now. We know the GOP will do everything in their considerable power to shoot down many of these ideas she has. But that doesn't mean she should just go golfing like Trump. She has work to do and she is represeneting many of the hopeful American people. She is a symbol of greatness for the Democratic party and no amount of protesting against her (even unintentionally like your and Adam_Poe are doing) is going to change that.

Now I'm protesting against her? 😕 Okay then.

Originally posted by Robtard
Now I'm protesting against her? 😕 Okay then.

Yup. Unintentionally, you're bringing her down with quotes like these:

"As long as she puts as much effort into it as farting, she'd get a pass it seems."

Way to mock her and unintentionally insult her. 👆

Oh, I wasn't mocking her, I was mocking the sentiment in regards to Trump and his wall promises, but you knew that and are trolling. No worries 👆