Originally posted by Estacado
My personal opinion is if Goku would put Jiren above Beerus he would have said something like "Broly you are almost as strong as Jiren." but he said Beerus instead.So you can guess who Goku thinks is stronger out of the 2.
It can also mean that Broly is stronger than Beerus but weaker than Jiren, though...
Originally posted by Galan007This.
I mentioned this in another thread, but that works IF you think Broly was intended to be sub-Jiren-level. Personally, I've never seen the threats decrease in power as the plot progresses in DB, and I haven't been given any legitimate reason to start thinking that's the case here(especially with the feats/accolades Broly has racked up.) Imo, the context of Goku's statement implies that he still views Beerus as the top dog, and Broly has now surpassed that.If Goku had compared Broly to Jiren instead of Beerus, I have no doubt that some of you would be using that as proof of Jiren's superiority over everyone else, so why should this be any different?
feats aside why in the hell would broly be weaker then jiren? i cant even think of an instance where the next arc's major opponent hasnt been stronger then the previous one.
piccolo to raditz
raditz to nappa
nappa to vegeta
vegeta to the ginyu force
the ginyu force to captain ginyu
captain ginyu to frieza
frieza to cyborg frieza
cyborg frieza to the androids
the androids to cell
cell to buu
buu to a restrained beerus
restrained beerus to golden frieza
golden frieza to hit
hit to black and zamasu
merged zamasu to jiren
but now its all of the sudden different with broly? I know some of you like to wank jiren but give me a break.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
It can also mean that Broly is stronger than Beerus but weaker than Jiren, though...
Except every damn hint ín the movie and manga trying to show otherwise.
Jiren was shown in the movie yet he wasnt even mentioned As a power scale.
Frieza fought Jiren yet he still said Broly had the strongest energy he ever felt.
Goku saying the only way to beat him is via fusion and Vegeta agreeing.
To me it seems like people wont accept this even if Goku said Broly>Jiren.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
This.feats aside why in the hell would broly be weaker then jiren? i cant even think of an instance where the next arc's major opponent hasnt been stronger then the previous one.
piccolo to raditz
raditz to nappa
nappa to vegeta
vegeta to the ginyu force
the ginyu force to captain ginyu
captain ginyu to frieza
frieza to cyborg frieza
cyborg frieza to the androids
the androids to cell
cell to buu
buu to a restrained beerus
restrained beerus to golden frieza
golden frieza to hit
hit to black and zamasu
merged zamasu to jirenbut now its all of the sudden different with broly? I know some of you like to wank jiren but give me a break.
Basically this, the wank level is surreal
Originally posted by One Big Mob
No he wasn't. His power should allow him to beat Black... maybe, but he shouldn't actually be above Black in power.
Especially in the anime when Goku was equal in power to all out Hit, and that same Goku and Vegeta lost to Black.
yet hit performed better against jiren than ssb vegeta and goku
he did argualy better than goku first time using ultra instinct
he was the only one actually fighting/trading blows with jiren
Originally posted by Damborgsonlol no he was not. i'm talking about peak Black just so we're clear.
Hit was stronger than Black...so....
Originally posted by Estacadoseriously.
Except every damn hint ín the movie and manga trying to show otherwise.Jiren was shown in the movie yet he wasnt even mentioned As a power scale.
Frieza fought Jiren yet he still said Broly had the strongest energy he ever felt.
Goku saying the only way to beat him is via fusion and Vegeta agreeing.
To me it seems like people wont accept this even if Goku said Broly>Jiren.
jiren is very very strong, not trying to downplay that. but we have every reason to believe Broly is more powerful right now.
a few people here like to wank jiren like theres no tomorrow. sometimes its deserved but other times it just looks desperate.
@Estacado: None of that has to do with what I said, though, which is that Goku mentioning Beerus and not Jiren doesn”t mean that Beerus > Jiren.
I also find it odd that people use the Goku > Beerus quote as somewhat definitive, but then don’t take the logical conclusion of the light novel quote from Freeza. Freeza doesn”t call regular SSJ Broly the most powerful mortal, he calls him the most powerful “being” in existence. While I can see the angels and Zen-Oh being excluded, we have absolutely no reason to believe that Frieza has less of an ability to sense Beerus’ power than Goku, especially when we know Frieza could sense god ki all the way back in RoF. Regular SSJ Broly > Beerus? Hell, the only way the light novel quote works in tandem with Goku’s assessment is if the gap between regular SSJ Broly and FPSSJ Broly is smaller than the gap between FP Jiren, (and in turn, other full-blown Gods of Destruction) and Beerus, which to me seems absurd based on the in-universe evidence we have.
The light novel quote is a contradiction. Frieza was talking out of his ass.
Originally posted by Galan007
Right.Freeza was speaking in hyperbole during an internal monologue with himself, while Broly was beating his ass. Makes total sense. ermm
Personally, I'm not a fan of just hand-waving canon material away like that.
Frieza is a known liar.
While every hype related to Jiren As narrative is facts....
There are only 'contradictions' because you're creating them.
Freeza states that Broly has the most powerful ki he has ever felt(and he has felt the ki of LB Jiren, for starters.) Goku states Broly is probably more powerful than Beerus, likely because he still considers Beerus to be the top dog, even after the ToP.
What's the problem?
Goku and Vegeta were joke compared to peak Black, completely at his mercy and would kill them extremely easily.
Nor Goku nor Frieza can sense the full of Beerus. Goku is in ignorance here... Beerus is too much for them. Frieza is an idiot... he handled very small portion of Sidra power and he thought he could handle Hakaishin Toppo. So much about him being reliable.
Whis said how small were they compared to Beerus in RoF arc or was it Champa arc. In such short time they reached Beerus. Yeah right. Goku is a brilliant fighter and he reached UI, far from power level of Beerus.
Nor Jiren, nor MUI Goku nor FPSSJ Broly stands any chance now against 100 hundred millions of years old Beerus.
FPSSJ Broly devours Jiren tough.