Obsidian should be at least trans, his shadow form is so haxx makes him beyond space time, intangible iand immortal. plus crazy powers like possession. all else fail he can just teleport people to shadowlands, his darkness manipulation is insane, he one shot kyle rayner and alan scott before (both hh), blinds gog, his darkness manipulation is also on planetary scale, he can cover the entire earth in darkness. if the battle take place in the darkness of space Obsidian can literally be everywhere at once
I don't see how runner is more powerful than obsidian, one> surfer, the other > kyle rayner and alan scott
*Made the following additions to the list:
Rulk (no energy absorption)- HM
Ragman- MM
Annihilus (base/no items)- MH
Jesse Quick- LH
Obsidian- HH
Lex Luthor (/w/ armor)- HM
Runner (/w/ Space Gem)- Trans
Originally posted by PhilMH, imo.
Speaking of bugs -- Mantis [New God] for MH? Or is he higher?
Originally posted by MrMindYou're absolutely right in that Obsidian does have some tremendously high-highs... But so does nearly every other HH on the list.
Obsidian should be at least trans, his shadow form is so haxx makes him beyond space time, intangible iand immortal. plus crazy powers like possession. all else fail he can just teleport people to shadowlands, his darkness manipulation is insane, he one shot kyle rayner and alan scott before (both hh), blinds gog, his darkness manipulation is also on planetary scale, he can cover the entire earth in darkness. if the battle take place in the darkness of space Obsidian can literally be everywhere at onceI don't see how runner is more powerful than obsidian, one> surfer, the other > kyle rayner and alan scott
To me it seems like HH is a good fit for him on average. He can always be moved if more people feel differently, however. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
You're absolutely right in that Obsidian does have some tremendously high-highs... But so does nearly every other HH on the list.To me it seems like HH is a good fit for him on average. He can always be moved if more people feel differently, however. 👆
I agree, compare to the best feats of the top HH like SS, Hal, Adam Warlock, or Majestic, Obsidian does not seem to be on a higher level. I am more arguing his haxx power set. But I am def ok with him being high herald, he is one of those characters that do not have enough showings to warrant a higher praise. so anywhere between low trans to high herald is a good fit imo ( in this case HH)
What I'm having trouble with is why so many people think Runner is trans tier though, even with the gem I don't see him being more powerful than let's say classic adam warlock. and he has even less feats than obsidian. Marvel does not even think he can beat the flash in a race, that's why he lost to buried allen. And Barry is only HH
Maybe I'm missing something
Originally posted by MrMindFeat-wise it's simply impossible to prove that Runner is as fast as the noteworthy Flashes, and/or Zoom(all of which are HH), nor would you be able to prove he is nearly as versatile in a forum setting.
I agree, compare to the best feats of the top HH like SS, Hal, Adam Warlock, or Majestic, Obsidian does not seem to be on a higher level. I am more arguing his haxx power set. But I am def ok with him being high herald, he is one of those characters that do not have enough showings to warrant a higher praise. so anywhere between low trans to high herald is a good fit imo ( in this case HH)What I'm having trouble with is why so many people think Runner is trans tier though, even with the gem I don't see him being more powerful than let's say classic adam warlock. and he has even less feats than obsidian. Marvel does not even think he can beat the flash in a race, that's why he lost to buried allen. And Barry is only HH
Maybe I'm missing something
I think most are putting Runner at Trans due to his battles with Surfer and Thanos. But again, I'm more than happy to move him if a consensus cannot be reached. 👆
Originally posted by Bentley*Ah yes, forgot about Vision. Moved to LH.
Annihilus hh
Lex Luthor hm
Vision lh
Runner let's keep him out, not enough showings---
Mothra hm
Jason Voorhees lm
Are we giving Annihilus the CCR as default? If so, I agree with HH.
---
Mothra to HM- agree
Jason to LM- agree.
What about Jason X? MM?
Originally posted by Galan007
Feat-wise it's simply impossible to prove that Runner is as fast as the noteworthy Flashes, and/or Zoom(all of which are HH), nor would you be able to prove he is nearly as versatile in a forum setting.I think most are putting Runner at Trans due to his battles with Surfer and Thanos. But again, I'm more than happy to move him if a consensus cannot be reached. 👆
👆 thanks for explaining , I'll let you guys decide that one. I'm fine either way as I am not well versed enough with marvel speedsters
Originally posted by Bentley👆
I'm assuming Annihilus has the CCR too for my placing. Feel free to put signal it on the list if you feel it's warranted.Jason X should be mm.
I think leo had the same opinion about him having the CCR. I can edit that in and move him up a tier. I'm also going to add Mothra, Jason, and Jason X for now. If anyone has an issue with these placements, feel free to chime in.
*These are the new set of proposals. Lets work on getting them placed before we move onto anyone else:
Originally posted by MrMind
some suggestionsH'el- Trans?
King Hyperion- MH?
First Born- HH?
Helspont-HH?
Starbrand- Trans?
maestro?
Bor- Trans?
Hela-Trans?
Warblade-MM?
Agent Orange WS -HS?
Zealot- LM?
deathblow-ms to hs?
The High WS- LH?
Nemesis WS- HM with Creation Blades?
Backlash- LM?
I'll throw in my opinion on some of these in a bit.
There's a good point about Runner - the Flashes/Zoom would beat him if it really came down to feats - especially without the gem - where he was specifically beaten in a race by Makkari going lightspeed. That's childsplay for the Flashes.
I'm starting to agree that he has too few appearances to rank, without ruffling feathers.
Originally posted by Galan007👆
MH, imo.
I think we'll be the only ones to say anything on him, so you might as well put him, lol.
Some of the proposals..
H'el- Trans.
King Hyperion - I'd put him at high meta, to be perfectly honest...barely low herald.
First Born - I wouldn't put him on the list at all
Helspont - New 52? Wildstorm?
Starbrand- high-herald
Maestro - low/mid herald
Bor - too little appearances. I'd leave him out.
I personally don't care about the new 52 version of the WS characters
but if you guys can throw in your opinions on WS versions of these it would be awesome thanks 👆
as far as King Hyperion, his showings in exiles killing alternative avengers and f4 and mutants and dominating dfiferent earths was pretty badass, absorb holocaust, or killin a alternative Big G off panel should count for something
but then again failing to catch meteor, then there was blink blowing him up with sand, then hyperion kicked his ass so...
a lot of high in early appearances but took a big dive