KMC Comic Book Tiers (v2.0)

Originally posted by carver9
Bill's really isnt missing anything tbh. What's stopping him from moving up to HH? He have the fts, heck, when he overload himself, he is easily above Herald tier. What's preventing Bill's from moving up in stature?

Physically he's a powerhouse, sure, but the list is intended to take a character's ENTIRE powerset into account.

Also, decoupled Bill =/= your standard, Stormbreaker-touting incarnation.

Does it count as Ninja'ing you, if it's the last post on the previous page? 🙁

😂 didn't even see your post:

Originally posted by Philosophía
Every worthwhile telepath in his tier would make him fist himself brutally [Nate Grey, Cable, Cassandra Nova, Martian Manhunter, Manchester Black, Rachel Summers etc.], has people who'd plow him savagely based on his performances against his superiors - Apocalypse. Has several people who'd speedblitz him into paste [Supergirl, Black Adam, Captain Marvel etc.], has people like Graviton and Magneto who'd make him rethink his life and several people who operate on a level higher than him - like John Stewart, for example.

There's zero arguments here -- he is not particularly versatile, as he just absorbs/blasts [unlike Thor -- and half the mid-herald tier], he's not particularly physically impressive compared to all of the bricks in his tier, has large gaps [telepathy, speed, actual versatility], hasn't particularly had dominating wins against people in his tier [has gotten one-shotted by Loki -- twice -- , has lost to Gladiator] or even the tiers below him [has had problems against Namor, against Red Hulk] and much, much more.

Of the few characters he doesn't have gaps against are low herald one dimensional rejects -- like the Hulk.

But yes... All this. 👆

yeah. brb should stay at mid herald.

any arguments against constantine for trans?

*heavy breathing*

please...

let's......

talk.......

more.......

about..........

A HORSE...........

f*cking Sif

OH GAWD

AHHH

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX

any arguments against constantine for trans?

thanks for bringing that up dp, I'd also like to see the other side of the arguments for this

Originally posted by MrMind
Constantine is at least trans, a solid case to be made for skyfather, constantine is literally dc version of classic doctor strange with prep level of doom. don't believe me? read Justice League Dark

the feats he has is fukin insane. especially his new52 feats

Synchronicity Wave Travelling simply makes him a walking plot device, distance and time bend the knees to him

he can one shot frankenstein with one word, able to incapacitate swamp thing

constantine has seal that can temporarily trap zauriel, the same zauriel that was able to kill the freaking phantom stranger, phantom stranger is a threat to all of creation according to freaking presence. he was able to trick zauriel to the house of mystery and summon a seal on him. (house of mystery is owned by constantine, one of the most haxxed artifact/weapon in existence.)

constantine has summoned and banished phantom stranger against his will

pandora box wasn't able to affect him, he was able to imprison pandora, phantom stranger and question in 12 hours.

MMH's tp doesn't work on him.

constantine killed nabu with trail of anubis.

he has curses to ruin anyone's life.

he can use random cigarretes as powerful ward to fight mister e who was amped by all the magical artifacts.

he can use quantum magic to travel to 5th dimension or even limbo.

he can resist affects of the time gremlins by pralaya- an omnipotent being. who was erasing all of creation

able to held dreamstone with his barehand, the same stone that harmed dream of the endless before.

he can time travel, or resists temporal change acted upon himself.

he has dodged punch from spectre, he has weapon like moonblade that is capable of affecting concepts and trapping gods, which he used to seal mister e.

he has wish granting magic matches that can depower swamp thing that was amped by the word.

aside from hax, constantine has attack potency in close combat as well, constantine has tore powerful demon negal's spine straight out of his body with his bare hand. (negal's body was in limbo and massive)

JLD villain blight was cracking open creation, blight is someone zauriel and phantom stranger cannot beat. constantine and nightmare nurse was able to overpower blight temporarily with nightmare curse.

even after his magic blood was pulled out of his body by upside down man.
constantine was still able to trade magic blast with freaking nabu
he was able to use binding spell on witchmarked wonder woman

other miscellaneous crap, like creating portal to the after life, summon demons, steal magic etc

notice the characters I mentioned constantine has faced? beings like first of fallen, pralaya, blight, spectre, phantom stranger, the word etc, they are abstract level beings at the top of dc cosmic hierarchy.

to even trouble those beings would require someone to at least be trans-skyfather level, and even then it would be a stretch. to think constantine is high herald level is quite frankly, absurd.

I don't mind DCnU Constantine at trans, personally. /shrug

Granted some of his higher-end showings have required prepped rituals and the like, but he can still absolutely wreck house with no prep whatsoever.

you can certainly make the arguments that post crisis/vertigo constantine is the same level as dcnu

(his post crisis/vertigo feats are op as well, though more of them are prep feats)

they share alot of same character histories, like nergal giving them demon blood, they have same magic abilities too.

You could make an argument that Vertigo Constantine and DCnU Constantine are the same character -- that seemed to be the original intent of Flashpoint, after all:
https://i.imgur.com/uYJchQL.jpg

But Constantine's feats/power have definitely been more emphasized in the DCnU than they were in Vertigo, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
You could make an argument that Vertigo Constantine and DCnU Constantine are the same character -- that seemed to be the original intent of Flashpoint, after all:
https://i.imgur.com/uYJchQL.jpg

But Constantine's feats/power have definitely been more emphasized in the DCnU than they were in Vertigo, imo.

👆

I'm ok with Constantine to trans, too.

So Constantine at trans.

Does everyone agree with this?:

Originally posted by Phil
So, my final take:

Off the list - Eclipso, Mordru, Nabu, White Lantern Kyle Rayner
Not include on the list - Apex Lex, GDS Darkseid, Future Old King Thor, Knull [until we get more info]
GDS Darkseid - skyfather/off the list. Him being above Mordru alone -- nevermind his other feats, says it all.
Pre-Crisis Captain Marvel - trans
Gorr - trans
Comedian/Ozy - mid street
Skuttlebutt - I wouldn't include it

Beta Ray - mid herald, and he's not even close to the top of the tier, nevermind being bumped to high herald. We'd have to bump up like half of the tier if we do him -- and his performances in battle with people other than Thor [and even with Thor, overall] is rather underwhelming, imo. I think people who don't read anything other than his battles with Thor and Stardust would be surprised. What is the justification here, exactly?

I'm for Constantine at trans, sure.

It all sounds good to me👆

honestly, it Depends fully on how much prep he has and what kind of artifacts he has access to

Most of Constantine's high end feats come from prep and strategy rather than raw power.
For example during the Witching Hour he managed to exercise Hecate out of WW, but only because the location they were at was a magical nexus that gave him enough power to do so
Another example is him curing his lung cancer and giving himself perfect health etc due to selling his soul to three seperate Hell Lords was him planning it that way so he has an immortal soul as none of the Hell Lords can claim it for fear of causing a power imbalance
And there is the case of him prepping a spell in an artifact in advance so he could use Shazam's power for a bit

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't mind DCnU Constantine at trans, personally. /shrug

Granted some of his higher-end showings have required prepped rituals and the like, but he can still absolutely wreck house with no prep whatsoever.

Oh he can absolutely wreck, but he doesn't do that through magical power
He does it with cunning, like using a man's own power against him (John Constantine: Hellblazer #3, the 2020 one)

DCnU Constantine has a number of high-end "unprepped" showings... Like when he waltzed in and casually owned the JLD.

I know the N52/Rebirth Constantine, but remember as well that he has knowledge on every member of the JLD, both their powers and weaknesses