Originally posted by Galan007
I could just make it "pre-Rebirth" Eclipso or somesuch, because yeah... Eclipso, Nabu, and Mordru are obviously well beyond Skyfather currently.Most of your other proposals seem fair at first glance. 👆
yeah I think the best way is to put "pre-flashpoint" notion on Eclipso, Mordru, Nabu and keep them there. Don't take them off the list
because that's where there power levels were post crisis. And that's where most of their appearances were at. So makes sense to put them there. With a lot of characters in DC we do have to specify versions, pain in the butt but part of the game
What do you think Shade would be placed at? I would think trans. That's another great character I think we absolutely should include
Originally posted by MrMindI think HH would be a good fit for Shade, but before we get too far, lets try and get these sorted:
yeah I think the best way is to put "pre-flashpoint" notion on Eclipso, Mordru, Nabu and keep them there. Don't take them off the listbecause that's where there power levels were post crisis. And that's where most of their appearances were at. So makes sense to put them there. With a lot of characters in DC we do have to specify versions, pain in the butt but part of the game
What do you think Shade would be placed at? I would think trans. That's another great character I think we absolutely should include
Originally posted by Galan007
Random bump, but the discussion in the questions thread got me thinking...Should Skuttlebutt(BRB's ship) be included on the list? If so, where should she be placed?
*Also, I added Icon to mid-herald.
Originally posted by MrMind
I wish we add cosmic and abstract tiers soonEclipso should be out of the list entirely, especially with the new JLD run Eclipso is definitely above skyfather, Orion should note on the sidebar his avatar is High Herald. Because New Gods' true forms are above that
Some suggestions
Skyfather:
Knull
Gorr (moves up from Trans)
Apex Luthor
GDS Darkseid
White Lantern Kyle Rayner
Michael KorvacTrans:
Pre-Crisis Captain Marvel
Pre-Zero Hour Mon-El
John Constantine (even no prep he's ridiculous)
Invictus
Darkseid (Avatar)
Sinestrollax
Old King Thor (Without Necrosword)Mid Street:
Comedian
OzymandiasI wanna say Wally West and Hal Jordan all have feats above current High Herald tier but I digress.
Originally posted by carver9
If Icon is pushed up to Mid Herald, Beta Ray Bill should be pushed up to High Herald since his fts piss all over Icons.
Here is my take.
Skuttlebutt [if included]-HH
Knull-keep off the list
Gorr-trans
Apex Lex-off the list
GDS Darkseid-Skyfather
WL Kyle-off the list
Korvac-Skyfather
PC Captain Marvel-trans
preZH Mon-El-HH
Constantine-HH
Invictus-trans
Darkseid avatars-off the list
Sinestrollax-Skyfather
OKT-trans
Comedian-MS
Ozzy-MS
Beta Ray-HH
So, my final take:
Off the list - Eclipso, Mordru, Nabu, White Lantern Kyle Rayner
Not include on the list - Apex Lex, GDS Darkseid, Future Old King Thor, Knull [until we get more info]
GDS Darkseid - skyfather/off the list. Him being above Mordru alone -- nevermind his other feats, says it all.
Pre-Crisis Captain Marvel - trans
Gorr - trans
John Constantine - HH
Comedian/Ozy - mid street
Skuttlebutt - I wouldn't include it
Beta Ray - mid herald, and he's not even close to the top of the tier, nevermind being bumped to high herald. We'd have to bump up like half of the tier if we do him -- and his performances in battle with people other than Thor [and even with Thor, overall] is rather underwhelming, imo. I think people who don't read anything other than his battles with Thor and Stardust would be surprised. What is the justification here, exactly?
Originally posted by Galan007
IfBRBSif does as good or better against Thorwithout Stormbreaker than he did with it,than Bill with Stormbreaker, then that's pretty f*cking pathetic.
---
It's so f*cking hard to judge the entities. Just remembered that, besides GL: Rebirth, Parallax was also said to make Spectre scared in Blackest Night or somewhere around there. Then the Butcher also had a good showing against the Spectre -- as did Hal while possessed by Parallax. etc. Not to mention Sinestrollax had some great ones, too. This all -- really -- puts Hal into perspective, but I digress.
Originally posted by Philosophía
---It's so f*cking hard to judge the entities. Just remembered that, besides GL: Rebirth, Parallax was also said to make Spectre scared in Blackest Night or somewhere around there. Then the Butcher also had a good showing against the Spectre -- as did Hal while possessed by Parallax. etc. Not to mention Sinestrollax had some great ones, too. This all -- really -- puts Hal into perspective, but I digress.
Constantine is at least trans, a solid case to be made for skyfather, constantine is literally dc version of classic doctor strange with prep level of doom. don't believe me? read Justice League Dark
the feats he has is fukin insane. especially his new52 feats
Synchronicity Wave Travelling simply makes him a walking plot device, distance and time bend the knees to him
he can one shot frankenstein with one word, able to incapacitate swamp thing
constantine has seal that can temporarily trap zauriel, the same zauriel that was able to kill the freaking phantom stranger, phantom stranger is a threat to all of creation according to freaking presence. he was able to trick zauriel to the house of mystery and summon a seal on him. (house of mystery is owned by constantine, one of the most haxxed artifact/weapon in existence.)
constantine has summoned and banished phantom stranger against his will
pandora box wasn't able to affect him, he was able to imprison pandora, phantom stranger and question in 12 hours.
MMH's tp doesn't work on him.
constantine killed nabu with trail of anubis.
he has curses to ruin anyone's life.
he can use random cigarretes as powerful ward to fight mister e who was amped by all the magical artifacts.
he can use quantum magic to travel to 5th dimension or even limbo.
he can resist affects of the time gremlins by pralaya- an omnipotent being. who was erasing all of creation
able to held dreamstone with his barehand, the same stone that harmed dream of the endless before.
he can time travel, or resists temporal change acted upon himself.
he has dodged punch from spectre, he has weapon like moonblade that is capable of affecting concepts and trapping gods, which he used to seal mister e.
he has wish granting magic matches that can depower swamp thing that was amped by the word.
aside from hax, constantine has attack potency in close combat as well, constantine has tore powerful demon negal's spine straight out of his body with his bare hand. (negal's body was in limbo and massive)
JLD villain blight was cracking open creation, blight is someone zauriel and phantom stranger cannot beat. constantine and nightmare nurse was able to overpower blight temporarily with nightmare curse.
even after his magic blood was pulled out of his body by upside down man.
constantine was still able to trade magic blast with freaking nabu
he was able to use binding spell on witchmarked wonder woman
other miscellaneous crap, like creating portal to the after life, summon demons, steal magic etc
notice the characters I mentioned constantine has faced? beings like first of fallen, pralaya, blight, spectre, phantom stranger, the word etc, they are abstract level beings at the top of dc cosmic hierarchy.
to even trouble those beings would require someone to at least be trans-skyfather level, and even then it would be a stretch. to think constantine is high herald level is quite frankly, absurd.
Originally posted by Galan007
Bill is undoubtedly a physical beast, but the tiers aren't just decided by physicality alone... That's why Hulk is where he is, for example.
Bill's really isnt missing anything tbh. What's stopping him from moving up to HH? He have the fts, heck, when he overload himself, he is easily above Herald tier. What's preventing Bill's from moving up in stature?
Originally posted by carver9Every worthwhile telepath in his tier would make him fist himself brutally [Nate Grey, Cable, Cassandra Nova, Martian Manhunter, Manchester Black, Rachel Summers etc.], has people who'd plow him savagely based on his performances against his superiors - Apocalypse. Has several people who'd speedblitz him into paste [Supergirl, Black Adam, Captain Marvel etc.], has people like Graviton and Magneto who'd make him rethink his life and several people who operate on a level higher than him - like John Stewart, for example.
Bill's really isnt missing anything tbh. What's stopping him from moving up to HH? He have the fts, heck, when he overload himself, he is easily above Herald tier. What's preventing Bill's from moving up in stature?
There's zero arguments here -- he is not particularly versatile, as he just absorbs/blasts [unlike Thor -- and half the mid-herald tier], he's not particularly physically impressive compared to all of the bricks in his tier, has large gaps [telepathy, speed, actual versatility], hasn't particularly had dominating wins against people in his tier [has gotten one-shotted by Loki -- twice -- , has lost to Gladiator] or even the tiers below him [has had problems against Namor, against Red Hulk] and much, much more.
Of the few characters he doesn't have gaps against are low herald one dimensional rejects -- like the Hulk.