2020 Presidential Election Discussion

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Artol, you are a really good guy and usually I agree with you 80% of the time here, however, disinformation is the KMC rightists go to weapon and labelling/dehumanisation are two of the primary techniques in their bag of tricks.

I don't disagree with that, my contention is more with the mechanism of how this works. I do think that right wingers dehumanize people in a lot of ways, whether that is by calling black people animals, claim that all sorts of Latino immigrants are rapists, or call what I few as at best centrists Democrats as Bolsheviks or Stalinists. I do agree with dadudemon that there is a similar, albeit in my view smaller and more based in reaction, mechanism on the left, when they call relatively normal (in the American context) conservatives nazis or fascists. What I think the basis for most people is that they truly believe that the other side is that way.

I do think we have slightly strayed from the original topic, which I viewed more in the light of "why may some people that may actually be closer to oneself politically still be identified as one of the "enemy" class..."

Originally posted by Artol
I think we may be talking about similar things, I do think people do not want to engage with others as they see them on the other team, or like you said "he's just a Trumper" or calling some people that aren't fascists "nazis". What I am saying is that I don't think it is a "tactic" so much as it is a reaction from a genuine place of different point of view. I don't know your experience, perhaps there are people that try to dehumanize you to disregard you, but I think a lot of the defacto dehumanization that "leftists" do to some people (and that right wingers as well do to a different set of people) is not necessarily a political tactic to grab power for the vast majority that partake in it.

I disagree in the most direct way possible.

It is a tactic by those leftists I keep talking about. And it is used like a cudgel to beat people down on the left, like me, to silence our voices. They've been doing this for years and they are getting more and more aggressive and even violent about it. They are even starting to turn on people, and sometimes violently, who were their allies just a few years ago.

Originally posted by Artol
To be more concrete though, do you truly believe there are posters on this site that want to actively dehumanize you?

Yes. But how honest they are about it is up in the air - I think they are parroting the lefties who do it seriously just to troll.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree in the most direct way possible.

It is a tactic by those leftists I keep talking about. And it is used like a cudgel to beat people down on the left, like me, to silence our voices. They've been doing this for years and they are getting more and more aggressive and even violent about it. They are even starting to turn on people, and sometimes violently, who were their allies just a few years ago.

Yes. But how honest they are about it is up in the air - I think they are parroting the lefties who do it seriously just to troll.

I see, on this site specifically, do you see a similar thing happening with right wingers (i.e. that they are actively trying to dehumanize other posters on this site) or is it only a problem, in your opinion, in the "left" side?

Originally posted by Artol
I don't disagree with that, my contention is more with the mechanism of how this works. I do think that right wingers dehumanize people in a lot of ways, whether that is by calling black people animals, claim that all sorts of Latino immigrants are rapists, or call what I few as at best centrists Democrats as Bolsheviks or Stalinists. I do agree with dadudemon that there is a similar, albeit in my view smaller and more based in reaction, mechanism on the left, when they call relatively normal (in the American context) conservatives nazis or fascists. What I think the basis for most people is that they truly believe that the other side is that way.

I do think we have slightly strayed from the original topic, which I viewed more in the light of "why may some people that may actually be closer to oneself politically still be identified as one of the "enemy" class..."

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes. Unquestionably.

Originally posted by Artol
I see, on this site specifically, do you see a similar thing happening with right wingers (i.e. that they are actively trying to dehumanize other posters on this site) or is it only a problem, in your opinion, in the "left" side?

I don't fall for Surtur's thinly veiled racism when he calls the rioters and looters "animals" when they are clearly black.

However, many of them are also white, Latino, Asian, etc. So he can hide behind linguistic sophistry to prevent himself from getting the label of "overt racist."

Other than that, no. Perhaps calling the jobless, ignorant, hysterical, angry, and anti-science leftists "babies" is also a way the right tries to dehumanize those particular leftists. Oh, and "commies" and "marxists." Very similar to them calling the liberty-loving libertarians (left or right) "Nazis."

But you see it far less. And the right-wingers/conservatives are far more accepting and kind than those leftists I keep talking about. I had a discussion with conservatives on another site, last week, about why UHC is a better choice for the US than the current system. It was well received and the argument/discussion was civil. Amazing, isn't it? I identified myself as a liberal from the beginning.

I literally cannot have a similar convo with fellow leftists about Trump and what he's doing wrong or not doing wrong. It's all just hysteria and the only option inthis conversations is unfettered and unmitigated hate of Trump for literally everything Trump or GOP related.

Also, I still owe you that video break down of the Democratic Party/Biden and the 2020 election breakdown. It's a good thing I ran out of space because I have since updated my talking points. I'll see if I can force time to record the rest, this weekend.

*yawn* People bemoaning "dehumanizing" language by the right while either ignoring or making excuses for it on the left?

I'm shocked.

And one more thing: I will continue to call people who loot and burn and riot animals. Cuz that is exactly what they are. If someone wants to read something racial into it, that says more about them. Instead of getting upset over what I call those looting and burning...get upset over those doing the looting and burning.

And it's not like I said only the black people looting and burning shit down were animals. It's not like I was shown video footage of a wide variety of races looting and was all "won't those black animals get out of the way of that white man looting that expensive tv".

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Agree one hundred per cent Artol, the left does this too but in a generally reactiony manner when they have just got bored with tactics of the reactionary right.

^Case in point. The left only do this when they are reacting to the eeeeeevil right wingers.

But wait, I was reacting to people looting and burning when I called them animals. That didn't happen in a vacuum.

Originally posted by Artol
I don't disagree with that, my contention is more with the mechanism of how this works. I do think that right wingers dehumanize people in a lot of ways, whether that is by calling black people animals, claim that all sorts of Latino immigrants are rapists, or call what I few as at best centrists Democrats as Bolsheviks or Stalinists. I do agree with dadudemon that there is a similar, albeit in my view smaller and more based in reaction, mechanism on the left, when they call relatively normal (in the American context) conservatives nazis or fascists. What I think the basis for most people is that they truly believe that the other side is that way.

I do think we have slightly strayed from the original topic, which I viewed more in the light of "why may some people that may actually be closer to oneself politically still be identified as one of the "enemy" class..."

Name the "right wingers" on this board that do that.

Indeed I too would love to see anyone referring to the black race as animals.

And I know nobody is going to be racist and suggest that some members of a minority group that loot and burn being called out is akin to calling out every single member of the race.

That would be racist as hell.

Pew wrote this up (maybe Robtard already posted it).

https://news.gallup.com/poll/315734/party-preferences-swung-sharply-toward-democrats.aspx

Basically, party affiliation went from +2 Republican to +11 Democrat since Feb 2020. That's pretty stark. That should be alarming.

Maybe Blakemore is right and not even the Bradley Effect will be enough for a 2020 Trump win?

Only time will tell. The economy is exploding at the moment.

Never understood why you thought he had a chance in the first place

Originally posted by Surtur
Never understood why you thought he had a chance in the first place

Biden really doesn't stand a chance. But he might if this surge continues.

Currently, it seems less likely that Trump will win by a significant margin. We'll see! 🙂

So u think trump will still win, just that it will be closer?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Name the "right wingers" on this board that do that.

I don’t know who all the “right wingers” on this board are, and if any of them do what I described.

Also tons of Democrats are racist so you're underestimating bidens chances

Originally posted by Surtur
So u think trump will still win, just that it will be closer?

As of right now, yes. But not sure.

Meaning, I would not be shocked if he lost.

However, I would expect Trump to still win.

Especially if the economy continues to recover like this.

Originally posted by Artol
I don’t know who all the “right wingers” on this board are, and if any of them do what I described.

I think only TheLoneRanger is right-wing on this site, frequent, in the GDF.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Pew wrote this up (maybe Robtard already posted it).

https://news.gallup.com/poll/315734/party-preferences-swung-sharply-toward-democrats.aspx

Basically, party affiliation went from +2 Republican to +11 Democrat since Feb 2020. That's pretty stark. That should be alarming.

Maybe Blakemore is right and not even the Bradley Effect will be enough for a 2020 Trump win?

Only time will tell. The economy is exploding at the moment.

Why do you think the Bradley effect will be relevant? Do you think that Biden will choose a black VP and that the Bradley effect will extend to the VP pick as well?

Originally posted by Artol
Why do you think the Bradley effect will be relevant?

Because Hillary Clinton lost the 2016 elections when she was projected to easily win.

Peopel simply responded incorrectly to polls because people were in the room with them or they didn't want to bla bla bla bla

No need to get into it. You understand.

Originally posted by Artol
Do you think that Biden will choose a black VP and that the Bradley effect will extend to the VP pick as well?

VP pick should have little to do with it. Unless people are just plain racist. Wait, Democrats largely are racist and sexist. Maybe they will vote against Biden if he picks a black female VP.