Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I KNOW!!!!!!!U primadonna!!
TBH, speed and intelligence to me are similar, in that they're broken (and are actually related).
We all (Carver and I) agree that prep means characters can beat others.
What is speed if not (short term) prep? I can see your fist coming for my face in slow mo, so I prepare for it. Either by dodging, or in Leo's case, I feel confident that I can tank the meter long claws heading for my face.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Yes it is. Hulk does various calculations all the time to figure out that angles, distance and speed all equal SMASH. WB Hulk for example was in full math mode. That was calculated perfectly.
The maths is there to protect civilians.Not in fighting heroes.
"Hulk is Hulk" is actually a mathematical equation that Hulk only uses when he's sure he can be full Hulk based on the amount of innocents and buildings around. Very rarely does he miscalculate the Gamma Gospel.
Only when he finds 9 as a solution he's ready to unload.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The maths is there to protect civilians.Not in fighting heroes.
The maths protects the heroes, too.
For someone of Hulk's strength level, if he wasn't holding back, if he wasn't making significant distinctions between what, say, Captain America or Hawkeye or even Spider-Man could take, versus what Hulkbuster IronMan Thor, or Sentry could endure, they'd be dead.
Hulk is an historically kind KO artist.
At least according to Greg Pak.
To some degree this is also true of Weapon H, which I plan to show in just a bit.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
The maths protects the heroes, too.
For someone of Hulk's strength level, if he wasn't holding back, if he wasn't making significant distinctions between what, say, Captain America or Hawkeye or even Spider-Man could take, versus what Hulkbuster IronMan Thor, or Sentry could endure, they'd be dead.Hulk is an historically kind KO artist.
At least according to Greg Pak.
To some degree this is also true of Weapon H, which I plan to show in just a bit.
So double standards.
You take one showing from Pak, and apply it to ALL.
Superman has showings of using speed. But no, we have to average it out across everyone.
Originally posted by Philosophíanah apparently superman is just going to stand there and let weapon h stab the **** out of him...
The problem that I [and I'm sure Galan and the rest, too, have] is that we're using something that is common sense [i.e. use speed to not get hit], and it's somehow not obvious that's what he would do, when it takes the minimum of intelligence. It is, quite literally, the most basic usage of power. It would be the equivalent of Surfer keeping the distance against Hulk by use his board maneuverability.Surfer opening black holes in people's brains [that he never showed himself as able to do, only talked about, btw], would be the equivalent of Superman listening to multiversal harmonics and counter-frequency-ing people out of existence. And Superman has actually done it.
Surfer transmuting opponents [that you have used -- specifically recently in the Apoc runs the gauntlet [with Surfer in it] thread, for example] would be closer to Superman starting to lobotomize opponents with his heat vision [as he has done, against Black].
They are not the equivalent of Superman thinking "I better not get touched", and then using his basic, base power of "I'm fast" to not do so. Nobody is arguing that he scans him with X-Ray and starts a speedblitz pressure point fest [that he has done, btw].
etc.
There's lines that we draw [well, except the obvious posters, but everybody ignores them].
I think the most simple way to put this, is we should always ask "would a 10 year old fight this way?"
If the answer is yes, then that's the bare minimum the character would do.
And then we can move on from there, and apply what the characters knows and can do and argue for it.
But we must agree on a baseline [in this case "getting hit is bad. using speed so that attacks don't touch me is good"], otherwise we have no starting point.
And, as I have said before - speed is basic, and it is broken. If it was a complex part of a versatile powerset, it would be easier to argue against. If it was something that could be resisted, it would be easier to argue against. Even moreso, when we're only talking about "not get hit" - none of the vibrate intangible/invisible/speedblitzs into paste" stuff.
But it's not. And it can't.
And we're left with threads in which logic has to be taken to the river and drowned, in order to make it fair.
Pope Carver the 9th travels around the world teaching Gammaism to 3rd world nations.
When little *clickclickboop* asks Carver about whether or not metal can be ripped, Pope Carve's eyes light up when he gets to show the whole village his tinfoil experiment.
This is their newest hymn after Immortal Hulk's incarnation. The lyrics came to Pope Carver in a vision:
"He's the wolf screaming lonely in the night
He's the blood stain on the stage
He's the tear in your eye
Been tempted by his lie
He's the knife in your back
He's rage
He's the razor to the knife
Oh, lonely is our lives
My heads spinning round and round
But in the seasons of wither
We'll stand and deliver
Be strong and laugh and
Shout-shout-shout
Shout at the devil"
This is ridiculous 😬
You can’t give Weapon H full capabilities and give him credit for things he hasnt done. Also to make him do things not in character. Yet here some are basically apply CIS & PIS to Superman and putting the restrictions on him. Not sure why it’s beyond him to use his speed and try to dodge some attacks?. Especially after the first “hit” or perceived hit.
Superman doesn’t even need to go all out and use his full speed ie. light speed. Now that would be out of character
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
TBH, speed and intelligence to me are similar, in that they're broken (and are actually related).We all (Carver and I) agree that prep means characters can beat others.
What is speed if not (short term) prep? I can see your fist coming for my face in slow mo, so I prepare for it. Either by dodging, or in Leo's case, I feel confident that I can tank the meter long claws heading for my face.
I just don't understand why when character A moves at lightspeed a handful of times and is a far departure from other speed showings is gospel when compared to him lifting/destroying planets through strength(far departure from majority) is automatically high end.
This is a generalization by the way and is more complicated, but one should get the picture.
This goes for any character.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So double standards.You take one showing from Pak, and apply it to ALL.
Superman has showings of using speed. But no, we have to average it out across everyone.
I might come back to this statement of yours if it interests me enough.
For now for curious readers, I'll just leave the following.
https://agingcapriciously.com/2016/05/22/the-fallacy-of-the-double-standard/
Good straw-manning on your part, though.
Originally posted by -K-M-Weapon H. Christ is our Lord given mortal flesh and blood. Just because he is a creation of our Lord, that doesn't mean he doesn't share almighty power like his Gamma Father. Our Lord gave him additional powers to fit into the mortal realm better, not so he couldn't use them.
This is ridiculous 😬You can’t give Weapon H full capabilities and give him credit for things he hasnt done. Also to make him do things not in character. Yet here some are basically apply CIS & PIS to Superman and putting the restrictions on him. Not sure why it’s beyond him to use his speed and try to dodge some attacks?. Especially after the first “hit” or perceived hit.
Superman doesn’t even need to go all out and use his full speed ie. light speed. Now that would be out of character
Dost thou dare doubt the power of Gamma? Art thou poisoned by the lure of Asgard? Wilst thoust be seen as a heretic in the ever reaching green glow of the Worldbreaker? Recant naive one and accept the destroyer of the Sasquiathans into your life and you shall be spared world ending rage.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I get all that. This is a forum fight. Some peeps just like to bring in more from their in comic portrayals.I just don't understand why when character A moves at lightspeed a handful of times and is a far departure from other speed showings is gospel when compared to him lifting/destroying planets through strength(far departure from majority) is automatically high end.
This is a generalization by the way and is more complicated, but one should get the picture.
This goes for any character.
Because of instinct.
Try going through an entire day by blinking slowly. Slow yourself down. Doesn't matter what happens - dry eyes, a bug flies in, a new Thor comic is released - if it makes your eyes tear up, slow those blinks down.
I bet that soon you'll forget, and pretty soon your blinks will be back to your uncontrolled, high speeds.
If I suddenly put an ice cube down your shirt, your instinctive reactions would be at high speeds.
Strength? Much more controllable. I can pull my punches so as not to hurt a friend. Or not go at my full max strength when at the gym. Sure, I can also hold my speed back, but that goes out the window when instincts kick in.
Like, say, if a punch hits or a giant claw starts piercing my soft skin.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Weapon H. Christ is our Lord given mortal flesh and blood. Just because he is a creation of our Lord, that doesn't mean he doesn't share almighty power like his Gamma Father. Our Lord gave him additional powers to fit into the mortal realm better, not so he couldn't use them.Dost thou dare doubt the power of Gamma? Art thou poisoned by the lure of Asgard? Wilst thoust be seen as a heretic in the ever reaching green glow of the Worldbreaker? Recant naive one and accept the destroyer of the Sasquiathans into your life.
Technically shouldn’t it be worshipping the One Below All?
Gamma is magic