Originally posted by Deadline
Westboro baptist church is probably controlled opposition probably funded just to make Christians look bad.
Originally posted by Deadline
That doesn't neccesarily prove anything, but there is a conspiracy to destroy Christians and Conservatives. So maybe she is maybe she isn't but it looks like controlled opposition to me.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
😂
The WBC are authentic and they're not the only Christians or Christian group who hold similar beliefs; they're just one of the loudest so you hear about them.
eg Last time I went to a Church (I was suckered into going) about 17 years ago, the preacher took the time to specifically condemn homosexuality. Of all the sins, why just that one, dude?
Originally posted by Deadline
Whatever. Load of rubbish, you can just create another doctrine. Communism killed ALOT of people.
Sounds like some "whataboutism" there, deflecting the argument. Communism under Stalin is a different issue and it would certainly derail the thread, but you brought it up randomly, so in short millions died in that supremely awful situation because of unyielding dedication to the ideology, very much like a religion. Again, like I said before: the real enemy is dogma. It's often falsely claimed that atheism is evil because Stalin was an atheist, but there's not much reason to think that his atheism was all that relevant. He was dogmatically committed to communism, that was his religion. So much so that he stamped out any small farmers and caused millions upon millions to starve to death.
Originally posted by Deadline
Sick of this lets bash religion rubbish. No I'm not Christian and I don't think they're perfect either but they're not the problem.
Don't think I ever made the claim that religion was "the" problem, like it's the only problem ever. But it is definitely "A" problem. If anything, dogma is "the" problem. It is honestly willful ignorance of what caused horrific events like the Inquisition, witch hunts, Crusades, etc to say that religion is not a problem (they were all religiously-motivated violence). Atheists would have no religious reason to storm across the land raiding, massacring, and pillaging in the case of the Crusades, for example. It took promises of remission of sins and other apocalyptic hopes to motivate that (along with some worldly ambition for power and conquest, of course). And that's to say nothing of Islamic terrorism wreaking havoc in the world and fundamentalist Christianity continually encroaching into policy despite being in flat-out opposition to the Constitution.
It has been secular rationality beating back the efforts of religion (again the Bible was a big obstacle in fighting slavery). You would be hard pressed to find examples of religious dogma keeping itself in check, taking a big-picture view and adjusting its stance. That's not how dogma works. It has taken forces from without (not from within) to mold and reform it to the more secular appearance it has today. The seemingly benign and charming versions of Christianity today are just the vestiges of the fearful and superstitious versions of the past. BUT even the seemingly benign versions of Christian dogma cause problems in unexpected ways: best example is the idea that zygotes have souls. It's preventing stem cell research, a potentially hugely beneficial medical treatment for myriad diseases.
So, sorry to "bash" such cherished religion, but yeah, it needs to happen and I shan't stop. 🙂
Oh, I happened upon this yesterday.. lol
Metalheads with kazoos drown out Westboro Baptist Church at Capitol
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Oh, I happened upon this yesterday.. lolMetalheads with kazoos drown out Westboro Baptist Church at Capitol
Saw that. Loved it.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Sounds like some "whataboutism" there, deflecting the argument. Communism under Stalin is a different issue and it would certainly derail the thread, but you brought it up randomly, so in short millions died in that supremely awful situation because of unyielding dedication to the ideology, very much like a religion. Again, like I said before: the real enemy is dogma.
Yea ok what about Communism under Mao? They killed at least 70 million the figure could go up to 90 million. Or Communists in the 60s and 70s...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2pMkkXIDrM
Look this argument about dogma is just about trying to change the argument you know people are too smart to fall for the relgion-is-the-root-of-evil argument so now you're just saying it's dogma. Dogma is part of religion the questions is what dogma to follow it could be argued it's good to follow certain dogma. You can't seperate dogma from religion so really this is semantics.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
It's often falsely claimed that atheism is evil because Stalin was an atheist, but there's not much reason to think that his atheism was all that relevant. He was dogmatically committed to communism, that was his religion. So much so that he stamped out any small farmers and caused millions upon millions to starve to death.
If you're going to argue that theism is going to make Christians and other religions do bad things then no it isn't. However the aim of you're argument is to make spiritually inclined religous people (especially Christians) look bad and make athiests seem more rational and civilized. Not sure you're going to win that argument especially when the concept of atheism doesn't make sense.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Don't think I ever made the claim that religion was "the" problem, like it's the only problem ever. But it is definitely "A" problem. If anything, dogma is "the" problem. It is honestly willful ignorance of what caused horrific events like the Inquisition, witch hunts, Crusades, etc to say that religion is not a problem (they were all religiously-motivated violence).
Sure you did it's just semantics. You're also assuming that when a religous person commits an evil act he's doing it because he's motivated by relgious scripture when he could be just using it as an excuse.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Atheists would have no religious reason to storm across the land raiding, massacring, and pillaging in the case of the Crusades, for example. It took promises of remission of sins and other apocalyptic hopes to motivate that (along with some worldly ambition for power and conquest, of course). And that's to say nothing of Islamic terrorism wreaking havoc in the world and fundamentalist Christianity continually encroaching into policy despite being in flat-out opposition to the Constitution.
Sure they would...Communists. It's a really simplistics argument human beings will always create excuses to kill one another you don't need religion. Eventhough I think you can brainwash people with religion for the most part I think people use relgion as an excuse. Ok you want to talk about Islamic terrorism. Ok fine how about...
British Intelligence creating The Saudi Royal Family
CIA creating mujhideen
FBI creating terror plots so they can arrest people
MI6 and Al-mujiroun
The reason why Islamic terroism is so bad is because of Western Intelligence agencies. See there you again with you're simplistic reasoning. In a lot of cases it's a lot more complicated than just religion.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
It has been secular rationality beating back the efforts of religion (again the Bible was a big obstacle in fighting slavery). You would be hard pressed to find examples of religious dogma keeping itself in check, taking a big-picture view and adjusting its stance. That's not how dogma works. It has taken forces from without (not from within) to mold and reform it to the more secular appearance it has today. The seemingly benign and charming versions of Christianity today are just the vestiges of the fearful and superstitious versions of the past. BUT even the seemingly benign versions of Christian dogma cause problems in unexpected ways: best example is the idea that zygotes have souls. It's preventing stem cell research, a potentially hugely beneficial medical treatment for myriad diseases.So, sorry to "bash" such cherished religion, but yeah, it needs to happen and I shan't stop. 🙂
I don't think it has anything to with secular. It's about good or bad. Good Christians will find an excuse to use The Bible to help people bad Christians will find an excuse to hurt people. You should watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJQjpG-lGY4
There's planety of scientific evidence that suggest that the supernatural is real. I don't think the zygote issue is about helping people I suspect like abortion there is a sinister agenda behind it.
You can bash it all you want I just got a bit fed up. Reilgion isn't going anywhere getting rid of religion is like trying to get rid of music. It's not happening because it's something fundemental to most humans. Also atheism is irrational and obvioulsy theism can be a stronger force for good.
To be blunt: cults are bad. Even really big cults with millions of people. Even if it's not a religion, even if it's a belief in communism, you're part of a cult. You're brainwashed into believing something. It doesn't have to specifically be a god.
These things can bring people together, but they can also cause great harm. The question is the harm worth the good?
And I think people know we'll never be truly free of religion. Or racism, or sexism, or any kind of hatred.
Unless we pull some "Equilibrium" type shit and give people drugs to mess with their emotions. We'd have gun-kata tho to compensate.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Oh, I happened upon this yesterday.. lolMetalheads with kazoos drown out Westboro Baptist Church at Capitol
Nice. Mungo Jerry would be proud of their kazoo-ing
Oh heres evidence that Christians are persecuted, theres a lot of proof but heres just a little. Not helping Christian refugees.
https://www.cfr.org/blog/united-states-bars-christian-not-muslim-refugees-syria
Covington kids demonized because they're Christian.
Oh and Jason Kessler may have been a Leftist.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4743446/dinesh-dsouza-exposes-jason-kessler-richard-spencer
Also look up Cointelpro intellgence agencies start up fake organizations to make certain denominations or people look bad all the time that was in the 60's but it still goes on today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
Originally posted by Robtard
It's like he's trying a No True ScotsmanThe WBC are authentic and they're not the only Christians or Christian group who hold similar beliefs; they're just one of the loudest so you hear about them.
eg Last time I went to a Church (I was suckered into going) about 17 years ago, the preacher took the time to specifically condemn homosexuality. Of all the sins, why just that one, dude?
I don't think so, just wondering why you're targeting Christians.
Originally posted by Deadline
Dogma is part of religion the questions is what dogma to follow it could be argued it's good to follow certain dogma. You can't seperate dogma from religion so really this is semantics.
Originally posted by Surtur
To be blunt: cults are bad. Even really big cults with millions of people. Even if it's not a religion, even if it's a belief in communism, you're part of a cult. You're brainwashed into believing something. It doesn't have to specifically be a god.These things can bring people together, but they can also cause great harm. The question is the harm worth the good?
Yup. There's definitely dogmas other than those in religions. Political cults like North Korea for example. It's definitely not a rational society because the people are brainwashed to think their leaders are deities.
Originally posted by Deadline
You're also assuming that when a religous person commits an evil act he's doing it because he's motivated by relgious scripture when he could be just using it as an excuse.
Lol, no. I'm saying that when religious people say they're doing it for religious reasons, I take them at their word. Especially when I know such a belief to be common or documented or within the certain holy book, etc.
Have you ever been religious, Deadline? Do you know what it's like? I have been, and when you're within it, it's very real to you.
Originally posted by Deadline
Sure they would...Communists. It's a really simplistics argument human beings will always create excuses to kill one another you don't need religion. Eventhough I think you can brainwash people with religion for the most part I think people use relgion as an excuse. Ok you want to talk about Islamic terrorism. Ok fine how about...British Intelligence creating The Saudi Royal Family
CIA creating mujhideen
FBI creating terror plots so they can arrest people
MI6 and Al-mujirounThe reason why Islamic terroism is so bad is because of Western Intelligence agencies. See there you again with you're simplistic reasoning. In a lot of cases it's a lot more complicated than just religion.
I would never deny corruption. It's rampant. And awful. But it doesn't contradict anything I've said. I never said religion was the only reason people find to kill each other.
Originally posted by Deadline
I don't think it has anything to with secular. It's about good or bad. Good Christians will find an excuse to use The Bible to help people bad Christians will find an excuse to hurt people.
Who is being simplistic again?
Originally posted by Deadline
Also atheism is irrational and obvioulsy theism can be a stronger force for good.
Awesome assertion. But it's wrong. Atheism is married to rationality. If there's not a good reason to believe something, then an atheist does not believe it. The same is not said for the religious/theists. They believe things on "faith," meaning there isn't good or obvious reason to believe something (in some cases there's even compelling evidence to the contrary), but it's actually virtuous to do so anyway.
Lol, You just made me feel like the guy on this meme...
Originally posted by Deadline
Also atheism is irrational and obvioulsy theism can be a stronger force for good.
And on the second part of this: I will fully admit that you could probably invent a dogma that would be a great force for good (something like, "People outside this country need help because they are inferior"). That would no doubt create an outpouring of help for foreign countries in need. I've been on medical mission trips with my dad to foreign countries and I absolutely loved and admired the desire to help poorer people who were much less fortunate with medical concerns. I just ignored all the Jesus talk to help save their "souls." So yes, that is a force for good, but it's not something that can only be accomplished by religious believers. And non-believers wouldn't waste time and resources on Jesus talk nonsense.
Originally posted by Robtard
I always did find the "without The Bible, people wouldn't know right from wrong" argument to be silly.
Because it is silly. Morality evolved like everything else. We had to cooperate with one another. It is in our best interest not to steal or fight or murder because we don't want to live in a world where it exists.
Originally posted by Robtard
I always did find the "without The Bible, people wouldn't know right from wrong" argument to be silly.
Mormons believe we have a natural tendency towards righteousness before we are born and things like genetics and experiences twist that natural goodness into something bad.
Which is also why we think "the sins of the children are upon their father's head" is important. Everyone is accountable for their actions (who can be held accountable). But parents also are responsible and accountable for their children's rearing.