Originally posted by Patient_Leech
That's interesting. What verse?
The oldest Judeo-Christian story, of course:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+3%3A5&version=ESV
It's the mythical consequence of eating the "fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil."
Originally posted by dadudemon
The oldest Judeo-Christian story, of course:https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+3%3A5&version=ESV
It's the mythical consequence of eating the "fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil."
Oh, right, of course.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Especially since Genesis suggests man has an inherent moral compass
Cool story. What about sociopaths? I guess god just forgot to install their consciences. You know how I know you do not even believe that? Because if you did, there would be no reason to teach children right from wrong, they would just know it.
Originally posted by dadudemonthe origonal version in the epic of Gilgamesh is more exciting tbh. Those Mesopatanians had it locked down.
The oldest Judeo-Christian story, of course:https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+3%3A5&version=ESV
It's the mythical consequence of eating the "fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil."
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Cool story. What about sociopaths? I guess god just forgot to install their consciences. You know how I know you do not even believe that? Because if you did, there would be no reason to teach children right from wrong, they would just know it.
They're possessed by a demon.
Duh.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
They're possessed by a demon.Duh.
Jesus Christ. Only you would believe in that demonic possession nonsense. Not surprising as you worship Satan, Hellboy, Beezelbub, Mephistopheles and the like. Your stylistic leanings suggest severe lack of maturation.
Oh, and the WBC sucks. They’re as bad as Satan peddling edgelords.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Jesus Christ. Only you would believe in that demonic possession nonsense. Not surprising as you worship Satan, Hellboy, Beezelbub, Mephistopheles and the like. Your stylistic leanings suggest severe lack of maturation.Oh, and the WBC sucks. They’re as bad as Satan peddling edgelords.
Oh, look. The self-proclaimed shitposter decided to chime in and broadcast how imperceptive they are. It's sarcasm, genius.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Nah come on, intellectually honest time, the WBC are noticeably worse than the Satanist edgelords
Good job calling bullshit. 👆
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Cool story. What about sociopaths? I guess god just forgot to install their consciences. You know how I know you do not even believe that? Because if you did, there would be no reason to teach children right from wrong, they would just know it.
The thing is, people DO seem to instinctively know right from wrong. I mean, even at my ripe old age, I can remember recoiling at things as a kid I just knew were off, without anyone ever having taught me they were wrong.
They know, but they just don't care. (Can one be "taught" to care? That's the eternal question that makes us keep trying to instill values, isn't it?)
Originally posted by Patient_LeechLol, no. I'm saying that when religious people say they're doing it for religious reasons, I take them at their word. Especially when I know such a belief to be common or documented or within the certain holy book, etc.
This is what happens when you can't make a strong argument you start trying to backtrack. Look it's an assumption to assume that people are doing things primarily because of their religion. There are lots of other factors in play, for example if somebody where to kill a religous persons children you would assume that the person goes on a rampage for relgious reasons when it can just be revenge. Please use some common sense, other factors can be in play like economics. Also you have to bare in mind religous people are not 100% that their beliefs are correct so they choose to believe in it.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Have you ever been religious, Deadline? Do you know what it's like? I have been, and when you're within it, it's very real to you.
Whatever, you sound like an evangelical Christian trying to use emotion to get your point across instead of logic and facts.
Originally posted by Patient_LeechI would never deny corruption. It's rampant. And awful. But it doesn't contradict anything I've said. I never said religion was the only reason people find to kill each other.
Yea but you're primarily trying to put the blame on religion. The point is that Western intelligence agencies are the primary cause of Islamic Terrorism not Islam.
Originally posted by Patient_LeechWho is being simplistic again?
Feel free to prove it then.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Awesome assertion. But it's wrong. Atheism is married to rationality. If there's not a good reason to believe something, then an atheist does not believe it. The same is not said for the religious/theists. They believe things on "faith," meaning there isn't good or obvious reason to believe something (in some cases there's even compelling evidence to the contrary), but it's actually virtuous to do so anyway.
Nope I'm correct let me break it down. If you want to argue about a diety called Zeus who is an old white guy that lives on a mountain and if you want to argue about Jesus dying on the cross for our sins then you have a point about the specific aspects of certain faiths. But you are incorrect in the idea that the existance of gods are illogical.
You can deduce that beings like gods probably exist just by looking at nature. Bacteria exists, insects exist, animals exist and humans exist it stands to reason that more likely than not other beings out there more powerful than human beings exist. The reason why you come to that conclusion is because you can already observe a hierarchy of lifeforms that already exsist. So it's like this 2=bacteria, 4=insects, 6=animals, 8=humans whats the next number? The next number is probably 10. It might not be but it probably is. So belief in gods is based on inference while Atheism is based on.....I dunno i guess some strange vendetta you have with Christians.
You're also kinda immature anyone whos lived long enough and has read enough history knows you can't make sweeping generlizations like athiesm is married to rationality because you're dealing with humans, all humans can be irrational. The fact that Stalin and Mao killed so many people proves this, also I could talk about in the scientfic community athiests are ruining research into the supernatural because as soon as tests show that the supernatural exists they reject the findings.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
And on the second part of this: I will fully admit that you could probably invent a dogma that would be a great force for good (something like, "People outside this country need help because they are inferior"). That would no doubt create an outpouring of help for foreign countries in need. I've been on medical mission trips with my dad to foreign countries and I absolutely loved and admired the desire to help poorer people who were much less fortunate with medical concerns. I just ignored all the Jesus talk to help save their "souls." So yes, that is a force for good, but it's not something that can only be accomplished by religious believers. And non-believers wouldn't waste time and resources on Jesus talk nonsense.
Common sense indicates that if you are trying to do good and you believe that a divine force is helping you you're going to be more motivated than if you didn't. You could also maybe argue vice versa but history doesn't show that...Communists.
There you go again with you're bashing of Christians. I just showed you a video of Communists who wanted to kill 25 millions Americans. I'm not worried about Christians attacking me. You just have this obssession with them, you have Christophobia.
Originally posted by cdtm
The thing is, people DO seem to instinctively know right from wrong. I mean, even at my ripe old age, I can remember recoiling at things as a kid I just knew were off, without anyone ever having taught me they were wrong.They know, but they just don't care. (Can one be "taught" to care? That's the eternal question that makes us keep trying to instill values, isn't it?)
Emphasis on seem. The appearance of design is not necessarily evidence of design. Similarly, the appearance of instinct could be a confluence of environmental and social factors.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Emphasis on seem. The appearance of design is not necessarily evidence of design. Similarly, the appearance of instinct could be a confluence of environmental and social factors.
Well...uhhhh...
You could argue that it is necessary that humans have tribe-preserving altruistic behaviors built into their genes in order to be as successful of a species that we are.
Exobiologists theorize that any species that is capable of interstellar travel will, as a necessity, require to have this "unit altruism" in their programming to assemble the resources and mind-power necessary for interstellar travel.
It's better to look at is like a tautology: an altruistic, social species is an altruistic social species.
It doesn't just seem like we are programmed to be this way. We ARE this way. It's in our basic programming to be this way. We are designed specifically to be this way because it is the result of millions of years of evolution.
Originally posted by Deadline
You can deduce that beings like gods probably exist just by looking at nature. Bacteria exists, insects exist, animals exist and humans exist it stands to reason that more likely than not other beings out there more powerful than human beings exist. The reason why you come to that conclusion is because you can already observe a hierarchy of lifeforms that already exsist. So it's like this 2=bacteria, 4=insects, 6=animals, 8=humans whats the next number? The next number is probably 10. It might not be but it probably is. So belief in gods is based on inference while Atheism is based on.....I dunno i guess some strange vendetta you have with Christians.
The problem with your example is that it improperly presumes there is a higher-order without evidence. Metaphorically speaking, pointing that out is what Atheism is.
Originally posted by Deadline
You're also kinda immature anyone whos lived long enough and has read enough history knows you can't make sweeping generlizations like athiesm is married to rationality because you're dealing with humans, all humans can be irrational. The fact that Stalin and Mao killed so many people proves this, also I could talk about in the scientfic community athiests are ruining research into the supernatural because as soon as tests show that the supernatural exists they reject the findings.
Mao and Stalin were not inspired to kill people by Atheism, but by Fascism, which is an ideology as dangerous as religion. Science is the study of nature, and the supernatural definitionally exists outside of nature, and therefore cannot be observed by science, so I have no idea what you are going on about there.
Originally posted by Deadline
Common sense indicates that if you are trying to do good and you believe that a divine force is helping you you're going to be more motivated than if you didn't. You could also maybe argue vice versa but history doesn't show that...Communists.
Conversely, common sense would indicate that one would be more motivated to commit heinous acts if he believe a divine being wanted him to do so. Congratulations on defeating your own argument.
Originally posted by Deadline
There you go again with you're bashing of Christians. I just showed you a video of Communists who wanted to kill 25 millions Americans. I'm not worried about Christians attacking me. You just have this obssession with them, you have Christophobia.
More acts of domestic terrorism are committed by Christian-identified extremists in the United States than any other group. Our prisons are disproportionately filled with "good" Christians.