Originally posted by Silent Master
I don't even know who Eninns is.
This is Eninn, a "troll" who posts a bunch of dumb shit about Islam:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f80/t656098.html
And yep, I think Islam is a horrid religion, just like Christianity. It doesn't mean the moderate muslims who choose not to follow the insane shit in the religion are bad. Just like not all Christians are bad.
And yes, I'll call Muhammad a pedo warlord, cuz he was. I'd call Jesus a pedo too if he was.
You will notice though, I've never once been called a Christianphobe by people here calling me an Islamaphobe.. Despite literally calling the Christian God an eldritch abomination numerous times and attacking the overall religion itself. I know they've seen me do this, yet they don't seem to give a shit.
Originally posted by ares834tip of the iceberg, Boko is killing thousands across niger, Chad and Nigeria. Army outposts, moderate Muslims and Christians. What people don't get is tribes like the Hausa are completely integrated and have both Muslims and Christians and the tribal identity supercedes both. In CAR you have Christian extremists doing something similar to Muslim moderates. Lot's of hotspots in emerging countries. The issues are often down to internal politics, money etc, for instance rumours abound for where Boko get British, American and South African weapons.
It's in Nigeria though, so the media doesn't care. If it happened in a first world country, it would get just as much coverage.
Originally posted by Surtur
And yep, I think Islam is a horrid religion, just like Christianity.
As a Christian my religion is very important to me, after my name it is my second most important identity to me, it's what I use to guide myself, to understand myself, to derive a sense of meaning in life, etc. Quite frankly, I don't like antitheist views, they are set against something of great personal significance to me, and at times I find them offensive.
At the end of the day though, I am not entitled to Surtur agreeing with my faith, I'm not entitled to him not criticizing it, I'm not entitled to government crackdown on his views, moderator crackdown on his views, or mobs of people castigating his moral character for disagreeing with me on this.
He has a fundamental ideological disagreement with religious thinking, likely spanning from the presupposition of God's existence, to devotion to God, to the embracement of religious morality. He thinks it is incorrect, and that such thinking is harmful to promulgate, in just the same way that we both are anti-leftist, we both reject the modern left-wing worldview and both clearly think that the promulgation of it has bad consequences, or in the same way that left-wingers on here disagree with the right-wing worldview and find the consequences of such thinking undesirable.
At the end of the day though, I'm certain that Surtur doesn't reject my fundamental humanity just because I'm a Christian, or that Surtur would support violence against Christians, or genocide against Christians, or legal persecution of Christians, or that in his heart he holds some deep hatred towards me because of my religious views. I certainly don't hate him for his antitheist views despite how much I disagree with them.
It's a very dangerous and disingenuous path to go down to conflate ideological disagreement with hatred or murderous or genocidal intent.
Originally posted by Emperordmbits an equally dangerous path to not spot patterns in rhetoric which lead to a climate where violence against specific groups can prosper as the are dehumanised be it by extremists of any stripe.
And this right here, if someone told me 5 years ago that I, as a Christian, would be defending antitheists I would've laughed in their face.As a Christian my religion is very important to me, after my name it is my second most important identity to me, it's what I use to guide myself, to understand myself, to derive a sense of meaning in life, etc. Quite frankly, I don't like antitheist views, they are set against something of great personal significance to me, and at times I find them offensive.
At the end of the day though, I am not entitled to Surtur agreeing with my faith, I'm not entitled to him not criticizing it, I'm not entitled to government crackdown on his views, moderator crackdown on his views, or mobs of people castigating his moral character for disagreeing with me on this.
He has a fundamental ideological disagreement with religious thinking, likely spanning from the presupposition of God's existence, to devotion to God, to the embracement of religious morality. He thinks it is incorrect, and that such thinking is harmful to promulgate, in just the same way that we both are anti-leftist, we both reject the modern left-wing worldview and both clearly think that the promulgation of it has bad consequences, or in the same way that left-wingers on here disagree with the right-wing worldview and find the consequences of such thinking undesirable.
At the end of the day though, I'm certain that Surtur doesn't reject my fundamental humanity just because I'm a Christian, or that Surtur would support violence against Christians, or genocide against Christians, or legal persecution of Christians, or that in his heart he holds some deep hatred towards me because of my religious views. I certainly don't hate him for his antitheist views despite how much I disagree with them.
It's a very dangerous and disingenuous path to go down to conflate ideological disagreement with hatred or murderous or genocidal intent.
Originally posted by SurturThey do, because it's a country of impoverished brown people and no one cares about brown people killing brown people. But what does that have to do with what you said? You implied that the media cares less about Muslim-on-Christian violence then the inverse, but what muslim-on-christian attack are you aware of that happened in a first-world country and didn't get tons of media attention?
Almost like they think Nigeria is a shithole country.
Originally posted by Putinbot1its that cross-section between criticising Islam on theological grounds and dehumanising those who practice is as alien, uncivilised, unwelcome etc. This just isn't present in the Christian equivalent, here or elsewhere, and the ostracising hostile environment for perceived "foreigners" that it creates.
its an equally dangerous path to not spot patterns in rhetoric which lead to a climate where violence against specific groups can prosper as the are dehumanised be it by extremists of any stripe.
I think secular westerners have largely accepted that Christians are capable of integrating with society, even if they disagree with their beliefs, not so for Muslims.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
And this right here, if someone told me 5 years ago that I, as a Christian, would be defending antitheists I would've laughed in their face.As a Christian my religion is very important to me, after my name it is my second most important identity to me, it's what I use to guide myself, to understand myself, to derive a sense of meaning in life, etc. Quite frankly, I don't like antitheist views, they are set against something of great personal significance to me, and at times I find them offensive.
At the end of the day though, I am not entitled to Surtur agreeing with my faith, I'm not entitled to him not criticizing it, I'm not entitled to government crackdown on his views, moderator crackdown on his views, or mobs of people castigating his moral character for disagreeing with me on this.
He has a fundamental ideological disagreement with religious thinking, likely spanning from the presupposition of God's existence, to devotion to God, to the embracement of religious morality. He thinks it is incorrect, and that such thinking is harmful to promulgate, in just the same way that we both are anti-leftist, we both reject the modern left-wing worldview and both clearly think that the promulgation of it has bad consequences, or in the same way that left-wingers on here disagree with the right-wing worldview and find the consequences of such thinking undesirable.
At the end of the day though, I'm certain that Surtur doesn't reject my fundamental humanity just because I'm a Christian, or that Surtur would support violence against Christians, or genocide against Christians, or legal persecution of Christians, or that in his heart he holds some deep hatred towards me because of my religious views. I certainly don't hate him for his antitheist views despite how much I disagree with them.
It's a very dangerous and disingenuous path to go down to conflate ideological disagreement with hatred or murderous or genocidal intent.
Of course I would never want anyone to be hurt for their faith. Unless they use it to do harm to others. I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was raised around Catholics, I know there are good people in every faith. IMO religion does more harm than good, but that's a discussion for another time.
It's also probably the case that the fact my own experience with religion was not very positive growing up has impacted my views.
Yet people who call me Islampahobic do not attack me over my stuff said about other religions Admittedly, the two I've spoken about most here are Islam and Christianity.
Originally posted by Tzeentchif only we had incidents of Islamic terroist attacks on western soil to use as examples...
They do, because it's a country of impoverished brown people and no one cares about brown people killing brown people. But what does that have to do with what you said? You implied that the media cares less about Muslim-on-Christian violence then the inverse, but what muslim-on-christian attack are you aware of that happened in a first-world country and didn't get tons of media attention?
Anyways, there is this tweet from the NZ police:
"We would also like to remind the public that it is an offence to distribute an objectionable publication and that is punishable by imprisonment.
Once again I want to reassure the public that a large Police presence remains in the city for the time being
They're referring to the video of the shooting in this case. I feel like this goes too far.
Originally posted by Beniboybling👆 good post.
its that cross-section between criticising Islam on theological grounds and dehumanising those who practice is as alien, uncivilised, unwelcome etc. This just isn't present in the Christian equivalent, here or elsewhere, and the ostracising hostile environment for perceived "foreigners" that it creates.I think secular westerners have largely accepted that Christians are capable of integrating with society, even if they disagree with their beliefs, not so for Muslims.
@S and M, how would you deal with "them"
Originally posted by mike brown
There are gangs in England and Europe too
There is no Western industrialized country that has our kind of murder rate.Obviously the gangs are the big problem, but the ready access to guns inflates the murder rate because guns are a very easy and efficient way to kill your enemies.
Is this the list of Western Nations?
USA
Canada
Spain
Portugal
France
UK
Ireland
Luxembourg
Belgium
Netherlands
Germany
Switzerland
Italy
Austria
Norway
Denmark
Iceland
Sweden
Finland
Japan
S Korea
Australia
N Zealand
Greece
I've seen maps that include Russia and all of Eastern Europe as part of "Western Civilization."
Anyway, here is the world:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country
If the US didn't have such terrible black-on-black violence, we still only break the top 100. So it's pretty bad, here.