Why Gender is Scientifically more complex than many think.

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Originally posted by Putinbot1
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How is it more complex with this particular individual? She has traits that less than 1% of the population exhibit.

Originally posted by snowdragon
How is it more complex when this particular individual falls into that less than 1% of the population with certain traits?

It's a population the size of the UK worldwide.

1% of the population is still over 70.000.000 people... Regardless of how many people are intersex or not, it's still a complex topic and it always will be.

Originally posted by MythLord
1% of the population is still over 70.000.000 people... Regardless of how many people are intersex or not, it's still a complex topic, and it always will be.

Ironic that her name contains the word semen.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Because that's 1 in a 100 people. I interact with more than that a day. Don't you? For this person, they csn't compete with either male or female fairly.

It's a population the size of the UK worldwide.

So are we using the gender is a social construct but biology determines your sex?

The issue with his individual is biology and doesn't have much to do with being described as a woman or man as a society might view them or even how they view themselves.

So create a new category for individuals to compete in?

Originally posted by snowdragon
So are we using the gender is a social construct but biology determines your sex?

The issue with his individual is biology and doesn't have much to do with being described as a woman or man as a society might view them or even how they view themselves.

So create a new category for individuals to compete in?

Originally posted by Putinbot1
She's still a female biologically. If 1 in a 100 has this particular metric, oh how the number invreases as other metrics are used.

Create new categories lulz I can imagine it now, the woman's high testosterone category

Interesting Info

Statistics on Ambiguous Genitalia

1. If all forms of differentiation are included, then the number of intersex births globally comes out to about 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 births.
2. If just ambiguous genitalia is considered, the estimated birth rate is 1 in 4,500.
3. With few exceptions, babies with ambiguous genitalia are physically healthy.
4. The percentage of the population that is affected in some way by ambiguous genitalia: 1.7%.
5. As much as 4% of the human population may be intersex in some way.
6. Over 90% of intersex children are assigned to the female gender.
7. About half of all intersex children that have surgery to assign a specific gender wind up with sexually sensitive tissue that has withered or died.
8. Many adults who have ambiguous genitalia suffer from depression or intense anger because of a lack of genital sensations. They are three times more likely to experience depression and related disorders than people with a clear gender assignment.
9. Ambiguous genitalia can signal a medical emergency if the condition is the result of a rare form of a genetic disorder called congenital adrenal hyperplasia.
10. There are over 150 different defects that can cause ambiguous genitalia.
11. The risk of becoming a victim of a personal attack because of their gender is doubled in people who are classified as intersex.
12. Almost 90% of those who are intersex have experienced at least one form of stigma or discrimination in the past year.
13. About 70% of intersex males and 85% of intersex females have seen a counselor or psychiatrist during the previous 5 years.
14. The number of young people who are dealing with depression at some point during the course of the year: 160,000.
15. 1 out of 4 people who are intersex will suffer from at least one anxiety-related disorder over the course of their life

4% physically may have some kind of intersectionality; I'm no expert on things like brain chemistry and predisposition. I would expect to add these metrics before we even add psychological syndromes we may be up to 7-10%. Then factor in Xenobiotic Oestrogens etc., and we have maybe 1 in 10 this is a guess.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
4% physically may have some kind of intersectionality; I'm no expert on things like brain chemistry and predisposition. I would expect to add these metrics before we even add psychological syndromes we may be up to 7-10%. Then factor in Xenobiotic Oestrogens etc., and we have maybe 1 in 10 this is a guess.

Sure but some/most of those are going to have minimal if any impact on athletics as it relates to the original individual you cited.

The topic of gender SEEMS to be more of a societal structure as opposed to the biological term of sex, like many biological systems we aren't put together like a bunch of legos with perfect right angles defining the edges of our shapes.

The issue with individuals like the mentioned in your article is that not only do they make up a small percentage globally it's easier to gloss over their problems due to their distribution and diversity of "issues."

Originally posted by snowdragon
Sure but some/most of those are going to have minimal if any impact on athletics as it relates to the original individual you cited.

The topic of gender SEEMS to be more of a societal structure as opposed to the biological term of sex, like many biological systems we aren't put together like a bunch of legos with perfect right angles defining the edges of our shapes.

The issue with individuals like the mentioned in your article is that not only do they make up a small percentage globally it's easier to gloss over their problems due to their distribution and diversity of "issues."

Originally posted by Putinbot1
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You spend a lot of time on gender studies in your late life, did you miss those classes in school?

I thought gender was down to how you identify where as sex is biological. So this really only means some biological females have abnormal characteristics which provide a physical advantage. I do think she should be able to compete as a female though since some people will always have inherent physical advantages over others.

Originally posted by mike brown
I thought gender was down to how you identify where as sex is biological. So this really only means some biological females have abnormal characteristics which provide a substantial advantage. I do think she should be able to compete as a female though since some people will always have inherent physical advantages over others.

Nobody told Kareem Abdul-Jabbar he was too tall to play basketball. Aren't they sort of putting a label on this woman by preventing her from competing? Women in general for that matter. "Oh, you don't meet our criteria for what a woman is so off you go."

Originally posted by Putinbot1
It's a bit broader as I tried to explain, but generally yes, many metrics, scientific, cultural, social could affect a persons gender role. As we have seen from this biological sex is also a spectrum to a point Mike, and I agree she should be able to compete for the reasons you stated.

Originally posted by samhain
Nobody told Kareem Abdul-Jabbar he was too tall to play basketball. Aren't they sort of putting a label on this woman by preventing her from competing? Women in general for that matter. "Oh, you don't meet our criteria for what a woman is so off you go."

Pretty much. She was born a women and is a woman, not her fault she's got an advantage.

Might as well set a testosterone limit for male athletes while where at it for men born with higher levels so it's "fair" to others with lower levels.

Originally posted by mike brown
I think calling it a spectrum gives the impression that most people fall somewhere along the middle... Which isn't true. The vast majority of people fall into one of the two binary sexes... And the majority of people who don't are peculiar only in so far as they have some of the characteristics of both sexes. It's still essentially a bimodal system if not a strictly binary one. And tbh I think that to a lesser extent the same is basically true of gender.

You see Mike if we set a spectrum up with ultra-masculine and ultrafeminine traits at each end you will have two overlapping binomial distribution curves i suspect.

@Sam and Rob, I agree totally.

I think that one argument in favor of trans athletes is that they could finally make women's sports worth watching.