Originally posted by Putinbot1I mean I see how you could technically frame it as a spectrum I just think it leads to a somewhat misleading picture. The people who aren't strictly male or female are aberrations that have one or more traits that are more common to the opposite sex. It's still basically true that in essence there are two sexes functionally speaking.
You see Mike if we set a spectrum up with ultra-masculine and ultrafeminine traits at each end you will have two overlapping binomial distribution curves i suspect.@Sam and Rob, I agree totally.
Originally posted by EmperordmbCause men are better than women at sports and am integrated league would probably just be a male league. But this person in question is biologically a female so why should she be excluded?
Here's the thing though, if we have no problem with males competing in women's sports because people have differences in physical ability from person to person anyways... why have separate men's and women's sports?
Originally posted by mike brown
I think that one argument in favor of trans athletes is that they could finally make women's sports worth watching.
Worth a read
https://mashable.com/article/gender-definition-science-trump/
A lot of credible Scientists like to look at it as a spectrum, the majority in fact.
Originally posted by EmperordmbThis is true there has to be a cut off point. I agree.
Here's the thing though, if we have no problem with males competing in women's sports because people have differences in physical ability from person to person anyways... why have separate men's and women's sports?
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Nah, it's not really complex at all. It's actually pretty black and white: you have a penis, you're a male. Don't have one, you're a female. Period.
I totally agree, if you have a penis you are a male, if you have a vagina, you are a female, but what are you if you have both? Or neither for that matter?
Originally posted by Putinbot1From the article:
Worth a readhttps://mashable.com/article/gender-definition-science-trump/
A lot of credible Scientists like to look at it as a spectrum, the majority in fact.
For example, babies with male chromosomes (XY) can can be born with testes but ambiguous genitalia, which can raise questions of gender assignment. Some women naturally produce lots of testosterone. People born with two XX chromosomes — who are typically female — may have a specific gene for male genitalia. And some people live for decades unaware that they share attributes of both sexes.
This is basically what I was saying here:
The people who aren't strictly male or female are aberrations that have one or more traits that are more common to the opposite sex. It's still basically true that in essence there are two sexes functionally speaking.
There's a reason why xx vs xy are associated with specific sexes. There are other characteristics that are associated with makes vs females as well and when they don't line up the way they are supposed to we get someone who has attributes of both sexes. Those people are the exception, not the rule. We evolved as a sexually dymorphic species with, functionally speaking, two basic sexes that are required for procreation. The fact that you see anomalies is not really surprising given the complex nature of our biology.
Originally posted by mike brownYeah, it's where the bulk are but read on, like I say it's not strictly that simple.
From the article:For example, babies with male chromosomes (XY) can can be born with testes but ambiguous genitalia, which can raise questions of gender assignment. Some women naturally produce lots of testosterone. People born with two XX chromosomes — who are typically female — may have a specific gene for male genitalia. And some people live for decades unaware that they share attributes of both sexes.
This is basically what I was saying here:
The people who aren't strictly male or female are aberrations that have one or more traits that are more common to the opposite sex. It's still basically true that in essence there are two sexes functionally speaking.There's a reason why xx vs xy are associated with specific sexes. There are other characteristics that are associated with makes vs females as well and when they don't line up the way they are supposed to we get someone who has attributes of both sexes. Those people are the exception, not the rule. We evolved as a sexually dymorphic species with, functionally speaking, two basic sexes that are required for procreation. The fact that you see anomalies is not really surprising given the complex nature of our biology.
Originally posted by samhain
I totally agree, if you have a penis you are a male, if you have a vagina, you are a female, but what are you if you have both? Or neither for that matter?
Those make up a very tiny percentage of overall births. They are simply birth defects due to mutations. It's like someone being born with an extra finger or something similar. As for what we call them, I think, iirc, those born with both are called hermaphrodites. Not sure what those are called with neither but they are probably even more rare than those born with both.
Radical authoritarian leftists basically want to force us to ignore reality because of something that happens so rarely that it's really not even worth talking about.
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Nah, it's not really complex at all. It's actually pretty black and white: you have a penis, you're a male. Don't have one, you're a female. Period.
And people with Turner's Syndrome? They have neither, so does that make them female? Is gender's basis the absence or presence of the penis? Is the vagina unimportant? Or is it maybe just a lot more complicated than just your genitals and trying to claim otherwise is clinging to desperate ignorance that's been outdated?
Originally posted by MythLord
What about intersex people? Technically, they have a vagina, but also a penis so they're male.And people with Turner's Syndrome? They have neither, so does that make them female? Is gender's basis the absence or presence of the penis? Is the vagina unimportant? Or is it maybe just a lot more complicated than just your genitals and trying to claim otherwise is clinging to desperate ignorance that's been outdated?
That's cool! So how about this:
Unless you're intersex: if you have a dick you're a male and a vagina you're female and feelings do not change this. If your entire issue with this is intersex people this statement should be fine with you.
Also has an intersex person ever once been born with a working set of...both genitals? Or is it usually one or the other? I'm 99% sure they have never been born with a set of both, but there could be something out there I didn't hear about.
Originally posted by Surtur
That's cool! So how about this:Unless you're intersex: if you have a dick you're a male and a vagina you're female and feelings do not change this. If your entire issue with this is intersex people this statement should be fine with you.
Also has an intersex person ever once been born with a working set of...both genitals? Or is it usually one or the other?
👆 Well said.
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Those make up a very tiny percentage of overall births.
Jack The Ripper only killed a very tiny percentage of prostitutes yet there are dozens of books and films about the subject. The overall question I was leading to is, if a person cannot be adequately described as being male or female then what's the term we use?