Originally posted by Surtur
That's cool! So how about this:Unless you're intersex: if you have a dick you're a male and a vagina you're female and feelings do not change this. If your entire issue with this is intersex people this statement should be fine with you.
Originally posted by Surtur
Also has an intersex person ever once been born with a working set of...both genitals? Or is it usually one or the other? I'm 99% sure they have never been born with a set of both, but there could be something out there I didn't hear about.
Originally posted by Surtur
I just hope people realize intersex people have zero to do with trannies, etc.Anyways, now that I've stated this fact, continue 👆
Originally posted by MythLordhe knows all this, his prejudices just prevent him from looking at things objectively. Good post btw.
When have I ever framed it as just an issue with Intersex people? Gender is a much broader issue and it's differentiated from sex. Intersex people are just an example of how genitalia doesn't always define gender.
There's a lot more differences between men and women in the body other than a penis and a vagina.There's some intersex people born with a working set of both genitals. Some are born with both genitals ineffective. Some are born with no genitalia at all. Some with ambiguous genitalia. Some with no vagina, but ovaries connected to the penis. Some are born with two penises one growing over another. Etc etc
You do realize a lot of people that transition are actually intersex people who remove the unwanted or unfunctioning genitals, right? The two aren't the same thing, but they do overlap.
1. The women athletes she's competed against: do they feel she has an unfair advantage? Have they complained?
2. If a male athlete with myotonic hypertrophy dominated, say, weightlifting, would he be treated similarly?
3. In general: should rare but advantageous genetic conditions be considered unfair overall, in any endeavor? Eg, what about employment?
Originally posted by MindshipAgreed, you could and I have argued on this very board that all top athletes are genetically unusual, look at a distance cyclists resting heart rate. Most of us would be dying at 30 - 40bpm
1. The women athletes she's competed against: do they feel she has an unfair advantage? Have they complained?2. If a male athlete with myotonic hypertrophy dominated, say, weightlifting, would he be treated similarly?
3. In general: should rare but advantageous genetic conditions be considered unfair overall, in any endeavor? Eg, what about employment?
Originally posted by MythLord
When have I ever framed it as just an issue with Intersex people? Gender is a much broader issue and it's differentiated from sex. Intersex people are just an example of how genitalia doesn't always define gender.
There's a lot more differences between men and women in the body other than a penis and a vagina.
You haven't, I just felt the need to point it out and your comment gave an opportunity.
There's some intersex people born with a working set of both genitals. Some are born with both genitals ineffective. Some are born with no genitalia at all. Some with ambiguous genitalia. Some with no vagina, but ovaries connected to the penis. Some are born with two penises one growing over another. Etc etc
I guess I phrased my question wrong, since I suppose technically you could have both genitals working and it wouldn't mean you can get a woman pregnant, but also be impregnated.
You do realize a lot of people that transition are actually intersex people who remove the unwanted or unfunctioning genitals, right? The two aren't the same thing, but they do overlap.
I'd be curious as to a number when it comes to the percentage of trannies that are just intersex. If it truly is "a lot" of intersex people doing it, I'd then be curious as to their specific suicide rates and how they compare to non-intersex trannies. And how many of those intersex transitions had two sets of working genitalia would also be a good thing to know.
Originally posted by Surtur
You haven't, I just felt the need to point it out and your comment gave an opportunity.
Originally posted by Surtur
I'd be curious as to a number when it comes to the percentage of trannies that are just intersex. If it truly is "a lot" of intersex people doing it, I'd then be curious as to their specific suicide rates and how they compare to non-intersex trannies. And how many of those intersex transitions had two sets of working genitalia would also be a good thing to know.
The suicide rates among the Transgender community also almost always only takes into account male-to-female or female-to-male transitions, not neccessarily intersex body modifications so once again that number is uncertain. Although, interestingly: the suicide rate amongst transgenders who are accepted by their family is around 4-5% whereas when they are rejected by their surroundings it hops up to almost 50%...
Originally posted by MythLordAbsolutely, a natural heavyweight of 220+ pounds before they lift a weight is going to be much stronger than someone who does not have the natural levers.
Personally, I think sports shouldn't be gender segragated. Just divided into categories of heavyweight, lightweight, pro, amateur, etc.
Originally posted by Putinbot1
Agreed, you could and I have argued on this very board that all top athletes are genetically unusual, look at a distance cyclists resting heart rate. Most of us would be dying at 30 - 40bpm
It's the difference between a natural evil, and a moral one (To borrow phraseology from a debate about murder, vs simply allowing one to die if intervention could prevent said death.)
The fact that people are born with advantages is unfair, but something we live with because it's not something we have control over.
Taking performance enhancing drugs is something we DO have control over, so we ban that from competitive sports.
Transgender athletes blurs the distinction. A man who becomes a woman may have an advantage, or may not (Both sides have reason to exaggerate to their advantage, as in all debates with any real skin to it), but however you slice the argument, there is no "Oh well, they were just born that way" resignation. No "act of God" shrug of the shoulders.