Universal healthcare

Originally posted by TempAccount
I live in the states and am not in favor of universal healthcare.

I'm willing to make compromises for juveniles, and subsidize initial ER treatment costs related to trauma-related accidents, but overall too many people in this country are chronically unhealthy to make any sort of universal healthcare system work. Hospitals are not centralized and have a very wide array of subpar to excellent quality control measures. Healthcare personnel are strained as is---allowing anyone to receive health-care for bullshit would be disastrous and simply lower the standard of care for everyone.

We live in a society where junk food is easier to obtain than healthy foods. People are fat, lazy, and ignorant about their health overall. Perhaps we can take baby steps over the course of decades to reach the end goal, but it ain't happening overnight.

So you don't get a choice in that regard- denial of service is not even part of the debate. The only question is whether we should have the inefficient universal heatlhcare system we have now, or an efficient healthcare like other countries have that actually costs tax payers LESS then what the average US tax payer has to pay in taxes for other peoples' unpaid treatments now. You and DMB are going to pay for my care either way.

Yeah, let's just cut all of our military spending (or at least enough of it to pay for everyone's healthcare which would lead to pretty much the same result defense-wise) so we are totally defenseless and practically begging for someone to attack us or our allies. That's sounds like a marvellous idea. 🙄 A weakened America makes not just the U.S. but pretty much the entire world as a whole much weaker and more vulnerable.

LOL@ so-called "progressive" idiots and their crazy fantasies. They all seem to think money grows on trees. DDD, along with many others, also thinks taxpayers should be forced to pay off everyon's student loan debt lol. Guess we'll just pull money out of our asses for that as well or weaken our military even more to pay for it.

As Surtur rightfully pointed out, free healthcare for everyone is a pipe dream.

Originally posted by TempAccount
I live in the states and am not in favor of universal healthcare.

I'm willing to make compromises for juveniles, and subsidize initial ER treatment costs related to trauma-related accidents, but overall too many people in this country are chronically unhealthy to make any sort of universal healthcare system work. Hospitals are not centralized and have a very wide array of subpar to excellent quality control measures. Healthcare personnel are strained as is---allowing anyone to receive health-care for bullshit would be disastrous and simply lower the standard of care for everyone.

We live in a society where junk food is easier to obtain than healthy foods. People are fat, lazy, and ignorant about their health overall. Perhaps we can take baby steps over the course of decades to reach the end goal, but it ain't happening overnight.

Great post. Agree with pretty much everything you say here, Temp.

Americans should take responsibility for themselves by making a serious effort to actually take better care of themselves so they aren't as susceptible to illness rather than cut military spending (which would seriously weaken our country and make us and our allies much more vulnerable to attack) to pay for universal healthcare. I also agree with you that everyone who is seriously injured through no fault of their own should have free access to being treated for it.

We need to get a handle on our border crisis before we even begin thinking about cutting spending in some other area to pay for free healthcare for all. Many people bring diseases and drugs across the border which ends up putting more of a strain on our healthcare system. Spend the money to build that wall. The wall will end-up paying for itself eventually. Free healthcare for everyone will never do that.

And before some snowflake yells "walls don't work! It'd be a huge waste of money!!", they do work (ask the Israelis; and yes, it is a comparable situation despite what libtards like robbie will say) and no it wouldn't be a waste. It'd be money well spent because wall would end-up paying for itself in a few years time.

Money spent into a Wall could be used to make an sterilization program and cleanly solve abortion problems too.

Hell, while we're at it, let's just go ahead and give foodstamps to everyone as well. That should be a univeral right, eh? After all, food is way more important than healthcare because people can only go two to three weeks w/out food. Let's just go ahead and give eveyone free housing while we're at it as well. Everyone needs a place to live, right? What about free clothing for all? Shouldn't that be a universal right? Can't have people walking around naked now can we? Guess snowflakes think we can cut even more out of military spending to pay for all of those things as well lol.

God help us if one of these "progressive" socialist snowflakes like AOC ever becomes President.

What about free guns for everyone? After all, the 2nd amendment actually is an ACTUAL RIGHT unlike those other things I mentioned. Everyone should have the means to defend themselves, right?

Oh no, crazy "progressives" don't like that idea because being able to defend ourselves really is a God-given right so the hell with cutting spending in other areas to pay for that, right?

Off-topic, why was the OP banned?

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
What about free guns for everyone? After all, the 2nd amendment actually is an ACTUAL RIGHT unlike those other things I mentioned. Everyone should have the means to defend themselves, right?

Oh no, crazy "progressives" don't like that idea because being able to defend ourselves really is a God-given right so the hell with cutting spending in other areas to pay for that, right?

Forgot to add that we should all get free ammo in addition to free guns because what good are guns w/out ammo, you know? That should be a "universal right" as well.

What about free dental care? I'd say that is pretty darn important. Shouldn't everyone have access to that as well?

Free cars? Free entertainment? Free game consoles? Free porn (LOL)? Free utilities (water & electricity)? Free postage stamps? Free personal care products? FREE EVERYTHING!! Seriously... where does it end, ffs?

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Free cars? Free entertainment? Free game consoles? Free porn (LOL)? Free utilities (water & electricity)? Free postage stamps? Free personal care products? FREE EVERYTHING!! Seriously... where does it end, ffs?

It will never be free, it never has now or in the future. With that said rather then your employer being responsible for the majority of health coverage in the USA it should be positioned away from employment is a large factor for why I support a UHC system such as France's.

Employers, when they create a group policy, are required to pay at least 50% of the premium for the employee and can contribute to family premiums if they want. Our current system has a tendancy to penalize employees for leaving companies with insurance and forces employers to waste time on HR to enroll/educate etc. For me it seems like a better system for everyone.

A national system means insurance is "portable," dealing with networks that participate with your insurance becomes less of an issue, peace of mind for low income workers with families that fall in the cracks of high premiums low accessibility due to rates and utilization charges, loss of coverage due to an std/ltd that would force an employee out of employer coverage due to termination and loss of wages etc.

There is a huge list of benefits and cost analysis a big part of the money to pay would continue to be employers/employees but rather then a group a policy they would have a "national" policy.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Off-topic, why was the OP banned?

Pretty sure he's the sock that was stalking jman.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Great post. Agree with pretty much everything you say here, Temp.

Americans should take responsibility for themselves by making a serious effort to actually take better care of themselves so they aren't as susceptible to illness rather than cut military spending (which would seriously weaken our country and make us and our allies much more vulnerable to attack) to pay for universal healthcare. I also agree with you that everyone who is seriously injured through no fault of their own should have free access to being treated for it.

I do think we should cut some military spending though. Look at how much we spend compared to others, why should Americans suffer because the USA has somehow become the default protector of the world? I'm being a bit hyperbolic there, but you know what I mean. Other countries need to start pulling their weight if what your'e saying is true.

If we come up with a workable universal healthcare plan I'd also be open to cutting all foreign aid in order to fund it. And I think the left should support that because they seem to be acting like we are in a crisis when it comes to health care. Extreme measures need to be taken then.

Originally posted by Robtard
I'm assuming the penalties would be higher rates/taxes for people who fail to meet a sensible level of improvement over the course of a year or more?

How then do you deal with the problem of say my hypothetical 400+ lbs obese person who simply will not change and keeps ending up in the hospital, but now is too poor to tax higher, otherwise he's going to also need housing and food assistance?

If we had a the FairTax system in place, your point becomes irrelevant. 👆

Part of me thinks that those types would not be treated and just die. They waste all the resources around them and eat all the things.

But then that's the same for many homeless. So this is why I cannot take a Kurk-like stance on stuff like this. It's too cruel to take that stance.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Yeah, let's just cut all of our military spending (or at least enough of it to pay for everyone's healthcare which would lead to pretty much the same result defense-wise) so we are totally defenseless and practically begging for someone to attack us or our allies. That's sounds like a marvellous idea. 🙄 A weakened America makes not just the U.S. but pretty much the entire world as a whole much weaker and more vulnerable.

LOL@ so-called "progressive" idiots and their crazy fantasies. They all seem to think money grows on trees. DDD, along with many others, also thinks taxpayers should be forced to pay off everyon's student loan debt lol. Guess we'll just pull money out of our asses for that as well or weaken our military even more to pay for it.

As Surtur rightfully pointed out, free healthcare for everyone is a pipe dream.

We'd be defenseless if we closed down our foreign bases, brought our troops home to defend our actual country, cut out all the corrupt military programs (a $1.5 trillion F-35 program, for example) where government contractors are wasting hundreds of billions of tax dollars?

It's like you don't know how the real world works and only cry about "progressives" because it's easier than trying to educate yourself.

Also, quote my post where I said taxpayers should be forced to pay off everyone's student loan debt. This is the third time I've asked you to quote me saying that. 🙂

Originally posted by Surtur
I do think we should cut some military spending though. Look at how much we spend compared to others, why should Americans suffer because the USA has somehow become the default protector of the world? I'm being a bit hyperbolic there, but you know what I mean. Other countries need to start pulling their weight if what your'e saying is true.

If we come up with a workable universal healthcare plan I'd also be open to cutting all foreign aid in order to fund it. And I think the left should support that because they seem to be acting like we are in a crisis when it comes to health care. Extreme measures need to be taken then.

Depends on how much you mean by "some." If you mean we should cut enough of it to pay for free healthcare for everyone then I think that's way too much. Same thing goes for cutting enough of it to pay for DDD's crazy idea of paying off irresponsible people's student loan debt lol.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Depends on how much you mean by "some." If you mean we should cut enough of it to pay for free healthcare for everyone then I think that's way too much. Same thing goes for cutting enough of it to pay for DDD's crazy idea of paying off irresponsible people's student loan debt lol.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
So you don't get a choice in that regard- denial of service is not even part of the debate. The only question is whether we should have the inefficient universal heatlhcare system we have now, or an efficient healthcare like other countries have that actually costs tax payers LESS then what the average US tax payer has to pay in taxes for other peoples' unpaid treatments now. You and DMB are going to pay for my care either way.

Originally posted by Surtur
I do think we should cut some military spending though. Look at how much we spend compared to others, why should Americans suffer because the USA has somehow become the default protector of the world? I'm being a bit hyperbolic there, but you know what I mean. Other countries need to start pulling their weight if what your'e saying is true.

Think about it... is it really good to give the European Union another reason to expand their powers?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Part of me initially agrees with this... but then again you also watch Sargon...

Think about it... is it really good to give the European Union another reason to expand their powers?

You have a point, but I'd say it's a risk worth taking because I think the EU is gonna head in that direction whether or not we do anything.