lucifer&michael v.s. beyonder&mxy

Originally posted by operator616

Several Beyonder feats:

destroyed Owen's multiversal dome (capable of surviving multiversal destruction) casually like it's nothing.

The multiverse he embodies (beyond realm) is infinite dimensional and far bigger than the mainstream multiverse.

Shrugged off a blast capable of slagging billions of dimensions like nothing.

Made the MULTIVERSAL asbtracts shit their pants.

Killed multiversal death

Destroyed several dimensions just by getting angry

Stomped Owen.

Let's not forget that Owen literally repaired multiversal destruction with a finger 😂 while calming down the beyonder (so in the midst of multi-tasking). Owen was also far and away above all the other abstracts. And the best part? Owen said that his power level compared to the Beyonder is the same as Captain America's compared to Owen. This is ridiculous unprecedented levels of power which Lucifer/Michael can never match.

Originally posted by operator616

What's with the meh? so casually destroying a dome capable of withstanding multiversal destruction and making all the abstracts shit their pants is now "meh"?

A single dimension, yes. While the beyonder destroyed who knows how many just by standing there and getting a little riled up. His mere presence was also altering the entire multiverse a great deal.

He could have ended the multiverse via dreaming only since his imagination and reality were one.

Though either way the spiderman/SW mini revealed that doom and spidey did in fact briefly recreate all of existence so there's that.

So congrats to Michael on stabilizing a droplet in the ocean that is the beyond realm?

Yes there was damage across the entire multiverse and Owen repaired that with a finger. He also collected energy from all the multiverse to create a multiversal dome and removed every living being in the multiverse to a dimension beyond the multiverse with a last iota of his power.

Beyonder operates on levels unimaginable to Owen (he said so himself), despite how ridiculously powerful Owen was.

If you think that Beyonder wasn't far and away above all the other Marvel beings then you missed the point of SW2 tbh. It was clearly and consistently shown and stated to be so on panel. All the beings were literally microbes (outright stated) compared to him.

Damn, you just made homie grab your back pocket and follow you around.

Beyonder's greatest feat:

Creating from scratch/nothingness, a reality quintillionS of times bigger

than the rest of the Marvel totality. wow

Originally posted by ibetroll

DC comics don't come under marvel comics umbrella

and thus the comparison is frankly meaningless.

Actually, identical twins.

Same look, same size, same power ...

and as we all know, Marvel vs DC? ... They stalemate for ever. 👆

Well, but in general, the DC characters are most powerful than Marvel characters, one of the examples is Mxy

When has Mxy defeated every,
actually even one powerful Marvel character for you to make that judgment?

The only time Mxy stepped into Marvel, he was stalemated by the Impossible man. (canon)

Mxy is the most powerful cat in DC. This fact is inconsequential concerning Marvel's powerhouses.

Originally posted by Mr Master
All 100% factual truth! 👆 ... and ... owned !!!

Damn, you just made homie grab your back pocket and follow you around.

Beyonder's greatest feat:

Creating from scratch/nothingness, a reality quintillionS of times bigger

than the rest of the Marvel totality. wow

Originally posted by Mr Master
Interesting, even thought Marvel and DC portrayed the companies as brothers.

Actually, [b]identical twins.

Same look, same size, same power ...

and as we all know, Marvel vs DC? ... They stalemate for ever. 👆 [/B]

Originally posted by Mr Master
When has Mxy defeated every,
actually even one powerful Marvel character for you to make that judgment?

The only time Mxy stepped into Marvel, he was stalemated by the Impossible man. (canon)

Mxy is the most powerful cat in DC. This fact is inconsequential concerning Marvel's powerhouses.

I mean, the Mxy's feats are the best feats in the comics (like WF)

Originally posted by abhilegend

That's like Dark Multiverse as per current cosmology,

In Marvel cosmology, imagine everything in DC comics plus one reality.

That one reality lies outside everything else,
and everything else is like a drop of water if that one reality was an ocean.

Whatever that is in DC, equates to Shooter's vision.

Imo, while Mxy may be the top dog in DC, (at-least I think he is)
it's the PM that most identifies with the Beyonder. (in terms of character similarities)

Originally posted by abhilegend

it's even stated just like beyond realm.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Nobody said the characters within were all equal to each other.

opr616 told you that all other characters were like microbes to Beyonder,
you replied: basically that the characters were not the same in both companies. Fair point.

but in fact, the entire Marvel continuum (what's considered the Brother)
was like a drop of water if Beyonder were an ocean.

This was Shooter's intent, and had he created Beyonder post-96,' that's exactly how it'd been. Simple.

No different than the PM being jammed into DC cosmology
as some character that is far bigger and embodies everything outside everything that was DC.

In Marvel, Beyonder was thrown in as some character
that was far bigger and embodies everything outside everything that was Marvel.

Simple. 👆

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BTW: For many yearS and I think even nowadays still,
the Beyond Realm itself has always been just as huge as it was during Beyonder's days.

Look at what Owen was capable of when he held the power of just the race of BeyonderS.

And the race were just subjects withIN the mind-bogggling vastness of the Beyond Realm.

The Beyonder, was the literal embodiment of that ridiculous space.

Well of course, infinite multiverse in marvel is somehow more than infinite multiverse in DC.

Might as well say marvel earth is equal to a galaxy in DC.

As per marvel cosmology Beyond realm is bigger than infinite marvel multiverse, in DC just the fourth world/sphere of gods is beyond the infinite multiverse.

Its just how things are, just because it chafes you doesn't mean anything.

Beyonder is a small cat compared to Lucifer/Michael. Deal with it.

You're attempt at reasonable sarcasm is poor, but I respect the effort.

So, skipping the poppycock ...........

It's just how things are in your head, and that's okay. Live brother.

... aaaaand Gibberish.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You're attempt at reasonable sarcasm is poor, but I respect the effort.

So, skipping the poppycock ...........

It's just how things are in your head, and that's okay. Live brother.

... aaaaand Gibberish.

😂

"Jim Shooter's vision says marvel earth is equal to a galaxy in DC universe".

Who cares? Bring the feats or get out.

Now you're doing the ol' lying thing again.

Unless you're quoting the voices in your head.

Tell Harry and Sam to get out of your head.

.... although hint: they're not real.

What are you blabbering now. This is your statement.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Whatever that is in DC, equates to Shooter's vision.

Nobody gives a shit about Shooter's vision. If you have any proof that Marvel's infinite multiverse is bigger than DC's infinite multiverse, show me the proof.

As it is Beyond realm correlates to only Fourth World in DC because they are both far bigger than infinite multiverse.

Which has nothing to do with "galaxies."

So again, listen to me and not the voices in your head.

And, I never mentioned or alluded to the size of DC's multiverse. 🙂

But no surprise there, as you're not debating and instead simply lowballing per usual.

If you were being serious, you would've understood wtf I said. But no, Ever always ... no.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Which has nothing to do with "galaxies."

So again, listen to me and not the voices in your head.

And, I never mentioned or alluded to the size of DC's multiverse. 🙂

But no surprise there, as you're not debating and instead simply lowballing per usual.

If you were being serious, you would've understood wtf I said. But no, Ever always ... no.

And "galaxies" was just an analogy.

I guess Lucifer casually warping the infinite Demiurgic power of the Presence to his whims(after tanking it detonating in his face) impresses me more than it does others. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
I guess Lucifer casually warping the infinite Demiurgic power of the Presence to his whims(after tanking it detonating in his face) impresses me more than it does others. /shrug

It's Michael's power, adding the "Presence" part doesn't make it any more impressive otherwise we'd be similarly praising everyone who tanked Spectre's attacks too since he technically also has "Presence" powers.

imo, rather than meaninglessly focusing on the source of the power we should judge it by its feats. the demiurgic power is capable of supplying energy to create the multiverse -- which is great -- but that's still nothing the Beyonder can't handle.

Why wasn't TOAA included in this? is Beyonder considered more powerful?

Originally posted by operator616
It's Michael's power, adding the "Presence" part doesn't make it any more impressive otherwise we'd be similarly praising everyone who tanked Spectre's attacks too since he technically also has "Presence" powers.

imo, rather than meaninglessly focusing on the source of the power we should judge it by its feats. the demiurgic power is capable of supplying energy to create the multiverse -- which is great -- but that's still nothing the Beyonder can't handle.

Michael embodied the [truly] infinite demiurgic power of the Presence, just like Lucifer embodied the Presence's [truly] infinite will. These aren't just 'levels' of infinity or w/e; these are the absolute peak of infinity -- the infinity of infinities. That said, utterly tanking the sum total of the Presence's demiurgic power detonating at ground zero(ie. Michael's kablooey), and then effortlessly warping that raw energy into a physical multiverse, isn't something I personally think Beyonder or Mxy are capable of... And I've championed Mxy here more than anyone over the years.

Don't expect you to agree, and I'm really not interested in debating it beyond this. I've had this discussion ad nauseam over the years and I've really ceased caring about it. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
I guess Lucifer casually warping the infinite Demiurgic power of the Presence to his whims(after tanking it detonating in his face) impresses me more than it does others. /shrug

Here are POST RETCON MM and Beyonder displaying TRANS MULTIVERSAL power :

Beyonder indeed solos.

^^ 👆 ... and their power is nothing compared to pre-retcon Beyonder.

Originally posted by Galan007

demiurgic power of the Presence, Presence's infinite will.

these are the absolute peak of infinity -- the infinity of infinities.

But in Marvel comics, beyond the peak of infinity

-- the infinity of infinities, ... is classic Beyonder.

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Also, didn't DC cosmology at the top change? (Perpetua, PM, DM, etc)