Originally posted by jaden_2.0
It certainly a more visible problem now. Whether that means there's more of those attitudes prevalent than the last few decades is debatable. Perhaps people with those views were always there and now there's just more opportunities for them to find one another and air their prejudices in a public forum due to certain online spaces.What is certain is that the violence from that section of society is increasing.
Yeah, that I don't know. But I also suspect that the rise of the internet and the ease of people becoming in contact probably has helped to indoctrinate more people than before due to the virtual digital deletion of people's previous bubbles. eg You can be some kid in the most liberal part of California and talk to some White Supremacist recruiter in Kentucky with a search result and a few clicks. As you touched on.
Exactly.
Originally posted by Silent Masterwell sure something is always going to have a bigger death count, until u get to what ever kills more people than anything else.
Level 1 to 1,000I could see rating them the same if they killed comparable numbers of people. but when one kills far more people per year. why rate them the same?
Does that mean that anything below it that doesn't have comparable numbers isnt a serious threat/problem?
Drug overdoses are killing more Americans than car accidents nowadays. And the rate that its increasing compared to car accident deaths frankly isnt even comparable.
Does that mean making sure people wear seatbelts or dont drink and drive isnt a serious problem to deal with?
Starvation kills more people by far than drugs or car accidents. Are they no longer serious problems to be discussed or fixed or to be even considered serious problems because there's a problem on another "level" that has a bigger death count?
Originally posted by Silent Masterand yet...
Serious isn't the only adjective that can be used to rate the level of a problem.
"Is that why you talk about it so much, you think it's a "serious problem"?" -Silentmaster
"OK, but is that why you talk about it so much, you think it's a "serious problem"?"- Silentmaster
"It's a simple yes or no question.
Is that why you talk about it so much, you think it's a "serious problem"? "-Silentmaster
"If 60 deaths = serious problem. what do over 500 deaths =?"-Silentmaster
"Only a serious problem?"- Silentmaster
Seriously?
Oh and since others wanna bring Antifa into this:
Originally posted by Raptor22
Just because something doesnt have an enormous death count doesn't mean its not a serious threat. Somethings are serious threats that we safeguard ourselves against to minimize the risk, but the threat is still there.We have laws, agencies, task forces, that monitor and guard us against Neo nazis, white supremacists etc... To keep them in check and minimize their damage. Without such the serious threat will turn into a serious problem.
Take the lightning strikes DDM referenced earlier. Myself and basically everyone ive ever known was raised to take lightning as a serious threat. When flashing started, it was always time to get out of the pool, cancel the little league game, put the golf clubs away etc... These were the safeguards we had to protect ourselves. And like the neo nazis Without them the threat would turn into a problem with a much less favorable outcome.
I mean for example, we dont say-
Measles has only killed X amount of people in America, so the anti vax movement isnt a serious problem. (Well some do but they're nutjobs).
Its only killed so few people here because of the safeguards we have in place, ie vaccines. Sure dying of measles isnt a serious problem in our country now, but if we dont continue to safeguard ourselves against the serious threat of measles/antivax movement, the threat will become a serious problem.
Like lightning and the measles, i consider neo nazis, white supremacists etc... A serious threat/problem that we need to continue to safeguard ourselves against.
We've all seen in the past how fast things like diseses and racial supremacy can spread accrosss nations and kill countless if not kept in check.
This quote comes to mind. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
This applies to Antifa as well, correct? I can't see how you could argue we need to safeguard ourselves against one group, but not the other. Especially since I could argue Antifas increasingly violent tactics(attempted murder in some cases) could lead to actual murder if they are ignored.
So you *would* indeed apply all that to Antifa...right?
EDIT: One trend we're seeing if the crazed lunatics in Antifa show up and highly out number the "nazis" and then the "nazis" leave and Antifa just beats the shit out of randos and reporters.
Originally posted by Robtard
Surt's still running from the question *giggles*
Just saw this, no need to lie and claim people are running from you. That's quan level sadness(you don't wanna sink to that level, nobody does...you can't sink any lower). I had signed off without looking at your post. So move on from this tactic you're better than this.
Tell you what: Antifa is whatever threat you feel neo nazis are. Just take that label and apply it to them, cuz they aren't very far off 🙂
And before you bring up the usual talking points let me just stop you with: Nope.
A tip for Rob for the future: if you're gonna discuss entire groups committing crimes context is key. I know sometimes it can ruin the narrative, but it really is necessary.
And people can talk about measles, lightning, whatever. I'm gonna talk about people and murder. It's hard to worry about 50 murders over the span of a year when in my own city we already have 5-6 times as many murders and the year isn't even over yet. And for all the talk of "people take this seriously", well...I don't see CNN town halls being done over it. I don't see hearings being held over it(they have had several about white supremacy).
So I agree with DDM: people won't admit there is a problem until it's a serious problem. Which it most certainly isn't.
Originally posted by SurturShhh, no one takes you seriously.
A tip for Rob for the future: if you're gonna discuss entire groups committing crimes context is key. I know sometimes it can ruin the narrative, but it really is necessary.And people can talk about measles, lightning, whatever. I'm gonna talk about people and murder. It's hard to worry about 50 murders over the span of a year when in my own city we already have 5-6 times as many murders and the year isn't even over yet. And for all the talk of "people take this seriously", well...I don't see CNN town halls being done over it. I don't see hearings being held over it(they have had several about white supremacy).
So I agree with DDM: people won't admit there is a problem until it's a serious problem. Which it most certainly isn't.
Originally posted by Surtur
Just saw this, no need to lie and claim people are running from you. That's quan level sadness(you don't wanna sink to that level, nobody does...you can't sink any lower). I had signed off without looking at your post. So move on from this tactic you're better than this.Tell you what: Antifa is whatever threat you feel neo nazis are. Just take that label and apply it to them, cuz they aren't very far off 🙂
And before you bring up the usual talking points let me just stop you with: Nope.
^ As he dodges the question again.
Originally posted by Robtard
@ddm While I agree that Trump and Trumpers will likely never admit it, I disagree with the notion that we don't have a serious problem and it's growing.We had four arrest that stopped four planned attacks just this month, three were definitely White Supremacist based, the fourth likely was too.
FBI's Wray says most domestic terrorism arrests this year involve white supremacy
FBI Director Christopher Wray said Tuesday that the agency has made about 100 domestic terrorism-related arrests since October, and the majority were tied to white supremacy.
”I will say that a majority of the domestic terrorism cases that we’ve investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence, but it does include other things as well,” Wray said at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, referring to cases in fiscal 2019, which began Oct. 1. -snip
This is pointing to highly unlikely scenarios as reasons why it is a problem, however. You could find more of these situations in a moderately sized city than you can for what you are specifically talking about.
Just in OKC, alone, you could arrest 5-10 people, every weekend, for their planned gang-war shootings.
Also, did you hear what Director Wray said in that video you linked? "Same number of arrests we have on the international terrorism side." So are you willing to create a new thread and post a new poll that asks if people will acknowledge we have an international terrorism problem in the US?
Also, let's put into perspective what Director Wray said: less than half of those arrests (domestic terrorism which is not the same as home-grown terrorism which is not the same as international terrorism: 3 different terrorism categories) are in some way part of white supremacists. In other words, they constitute a minority of terrorism-related arrests.
Here is the most important approach that everyone should be taking on criminal political issues:
Instead of playing the emotional logical fallacy games, quantify your position with facts and contextualize that quantity in the entire criminal threat landscape.
Originally posted by Raptor22
Just because something doesnt have an enormous death count doesn't mean its not a serious threat. Somethings are serious threats that we safeguard ourselves against to minimize the risk, but the threat is still there.We have laws, agencies, task forces, that monitor and guard us against Neo nazis, white supremacists etc... To keep them in check and minimize their damage. Without such the serious threat will turn into a serious problem.
Take the lightning strikes DDM referenced earlier. Myself and basically everyone ive ever known was raised to take lightning as a serious threat. When flashing started, it was always time to get out of the pool, cancel the little league game, put the golf clubs away etc... These were the safeguards we had to protect ourselves. And like the neo nazis Without them the threat would turn into a problem with a much less favorable outcome.
I mean for example, we dont say-
Measles has only killed X amount of people in America, so the anti vax movement isnt a serious problem. (Well some do but they're nutjobs).
Its only killed so few people here because of the safeguards we have in place, ie vaccines. Sure dying of measles isnt a serious problem in our country now, but if we dont continue to safeguard ourselves against the serious threat of measles/antivax movement, the threat will become a serious problem.
Like lightning and the measles, i consider neo nazis, white supremacists etc... A serious threat/problem that we need to continue to safeguard ourselves against.
We've all seen in the past how fast things like diseses and racial supremacy can spread accrosss nations and kill countless if not kept in check.
This quote comes to mind. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
I agree with Robtard: good post. 👆
We as humans do not handle probabilities and statistics very well. We are terrible at it, in fact.
We have the Mainstream Media having us frothing at the mouth in fear over the almost completely nonexistent threat of White Supremacists Terrorists. Meanwhile, car-deaths, the opoid epidemic, black men murdering the shit out of each other, and our stupid wars are causing so many deaths that it's absurd.
But it's far far sexier to talk about one off Billy-Bob who wants to kill those damn Jews. Gasp! It's the most important issue of our day!