Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Which part, specifically? 🙂
Your whole spiel about speed and how Kenobi was there because of it. What? And the "fights are slowed down" part tells us nothing really. We can just go by what is on screen.
He doesn't ever strike 20 times in a single second.
And remember: the jedi do shit that make no sense. Killing Grievous could have ended the war and they send 1 jedi?
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Imp hasn't ruled against movie canon material. This is the MVF and anything pertaining to the movie should be valid.So, stop trying to use the rules to handicap Grievous to your favour.
It's dabatable whether it is Canon.
He has. Others were using so called Canon material and he stated that we ONLY use on screen feats as evidence. Note: the word "ONLY".
He stated that if it didn't happen on screen then it didn't happen at all.
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
zomgThe novelization is based off of what's onscreen - and Kenobi was sent to hunt Grevious down specifically due to the speed mentioned in the novelization.
The novelization merely mirrors what is onscreen and adds plot-context - nothing more.
(I hope you're not going to pretend Grevious was actually slow/normal speed in the movie - 'cause it's pretty fvcking obvious he wasn't.)
So just because the books reveal that the fights move faster than the naked eye, that means they don't in the movies?
Logic fail.
Lucasfilm sanctioned those novels - Lucasfilm revealed in the novels that Jedi and Sith do move many times faster than the naked eye.
Who are you to say otherwise?
If your name isn't George Lucas then you're wrong - move along.
We have rules in this forum. On screen feats only.
Also you never addressed how mere plain humans (non force users) can respond to the attacks of and fight evenly with Jedi.
What was the intentions of the writer?
Originally posted by h1a8
We have rules in this forum. On screen feats only.Also you never addressed how mere plain humans (non force users) can respond to the attacks of and fight evenly with Jedi.
What was the intentions of the writer?
This is what Impediment has stated to be illegal:
If your character you wish to use has feats/actions/handicaps that contradict what that character did on screen (movie canon), then it is a violation and is illegal.
Nothing Grievous has shown on screen contradicts what the canon material states he has.
And again, canon material is canon. Stating that canon is illegal is a cheap way to handicap characters.
Grievous not showing anywhere near that level of speed contradicts it just fine.
And we have 1 feature film and a tv show with over 120 episodes where the guy racked up plenty of feats and still didn't show that speed. And that was a cartoon so they were free to show off the speed more without having to say "well it's actually slowed down".
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
This is what Impediment has stated to be illegal:Nothing Grievous has shown on screen contradicts what the canon material states he has.
And again, canon material is [B]canon
. Stating that canon is illegal is a cheap way to handicap characters. [/B]
That quote means that if you can't give anyone the ability to move faster than what is SHOWN.
Also mere humans have reacted to and fought evenly to Jedi (some Jedi couldn't react fast enough). This contradicts Jedi speed. Therefore, the writer's intentions is that visual speed is real speed.
Note: A writer who wants the audience to know that characters are moving faster than what's shown will have clues/evidence to this. They are the story tellers. No evidence of characters moving faster than what is shown IS INTENTIONAL.
Well a normal human reacting to a jedi is just bad writing since they have enhanced speed and precog, but that still doesn't mean Grievous can hit you 20 times in a single second.
And I thought feats from movies were allowed and also tv shows, but now novels count as well? We really should be allowed to make fights with characters from books then. I want Harry Dresden to kill Harry Potter...
Originally posted by h1a8
That quote means that if you can't give anyone the ability to move faster than what is SHOWN.Also mere humans have reacted to and fought evenly to Jedi (some Jedi couldn't react fast enough). This contradicts Jedi speed. Therefore, the writer's intentions is that visual speed is real speed.
Note: A writer who wants the audience to know that characters are moving faster than what's shown will have clues/evidence to this. They are the story tellers. No evidence of characters moving faster than what is shown IS INTENTIONAL.
Grievous was moving fast, very fast. So I don't see how the screen feats contradict the statement
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Two idiots here saying a old robot can beat wonder woman.
Her gauntlets alone are enough to kill him.
Put your cute little mouth on my genitals.
Also point out in my posts where I stated Grevious can beat Wonder Woman.
I've been arguing to those untrained in Star Wars lore how the Canon of Grevious's story works and why Grevious's speed makes him a Jedi-killer.
Grevious's total speed seems to be comparable with Wonder Woman - because he could kill a whole room full of bank robbers before their brains could react.
The only thing that matters in this debate is whether or not Wonder Woman can be hurt by lightsabers and how far apart the two combatants are.
If Wonder Woman can be cut by a lightsaber and she doesn't go directly for his rib-cage (his body can withstand turbo-laser blasts) and go for his gut-sack - then he likely cuts her to pieces.
If Wonder Woman can't be cut by a lightsaber, then Wonder Woman wins.
So how good is Wonder Woman's durability? 🙂
Originally posted by Surtur
Your whole spiel about speed and how Kenobi was there because of it. What?
This is why it helps to actually read the fvcking backstories for this shit.
In Labyrinth Of Evil, which takes place before Revenge Of The Sith, Mace Windu actually duels Grevious atop a speeding mag-lev train and Grevious's computer-brain analyzes Mace's Vapaad fighting-style.
Grevious's speed makes him able to dodge a lethal-thrust that Mace aims at his gut-sack and Mace barely survives Grevious's counter-kick that would've decapitated him.
Mace Force-pushes Grevious off the train, but a Separatist-hovercraft speeding below them catches Grevious.
Afterwards, Mace tells Kenobi that Grevious has analyzed his Vapaad-style, and that Grevious's analytical-abilities and speed are too much for any available Jedi to handle except Kenobi.
Since Mace and Yoda need to stay and defend Coruscant, they send Kenobi to hunt Grevious down - since any other Jedi would be slaughtered.
Originally posted by Surtur
And the "fights are slowed down" part tells us nothing really. We can just go by what is on screen.
That makes sense to you? 🙂
If their speed isn't slowed down - that means a little kid is as fast as Yoda.
Originally posted by Surtur
He doesn't ever strike 20 times in a single second.
According to George Lucas - he does. 🙂
Originally posted by Surtur
And remember: the jedi do shit that make no sense. Killing Grievous could have ended the war and they send 1 jedi?
Hundreds of Jedi died in the very first battle of the Clone Wars.
By the wars end, the Jedi had incurred thousands of casualties.
During the Battle Of Coruscant - just before
Revenge Of The Sith - Grevious brutally slaughters a dozen Jedi guarding Chancellor Palpatine.
So sending multiple Jedi wouldn't do jack shit - and they didn't have the available personnel at that point to send more than Kenobi anyway.
Mace Windu tells Kenobi at the end of the Battle Of Coruscant that he is the only Jedi they have (with the exception of Mace himself and Yoda) capable of taking out Grevious due to Grevious's capability to analyze his opponent's fighting style and his speed.
Originally posted by h1a8
We have rules in this forum. On screen feats only.
"Onscreen feats only" implies that Yoda and a little boy attack at the same speed - which is fvcking retarded.
YouTube video
YouTube video
Jedi and Sith move faster than what is shown onscreen - what is seen onscreen is slowed down for the audience's benefit.
Originally posted by h1a8
Also you never addressed how mere plain humans (non force users) can respond to the attacks of and fight evenly with Jedi.
You never addressed which plain mere Humans have responded to the attacks of Jedi and fought evenly with them.
Originally posted by Surtur
And we have 1 feature film and a tv show with over 120 episodes where the guy racked up plenty of feats and still didn't show that speed.
Yeah - and that "tv show with over 120 episodes" features a character (Ahsoka Tano) that never existed in that "1 feature film".
The Clone Wars CGI series also features a duel with Mace Windu (the guy who beat Sidious) being unable to defeat Darth Maul's Non-Canon brother, Savage Oppress.
In other words - TCW Series is Ambiguously-Canon at best and repeatedly contradicts Revenge Of The Sith - I.E. Ahsoka being able to duel evenly with Grevious - despite supporting-material for Revenge Of The Sith making it clear that only Kenobi could handle him.
And Mace Windu being unable to defeat Savage Oppress, even though Mace can defeat Sidious.
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Yeah - and that "tv show with over 120 episodes" features a character (Ahsoka Tano) that never existed in that "1 feature film".The Clone Wars CGI series also features a duel with Mace Windu (the guy who beat Sidious) being unable to defeat Darth Maul's Non-Canon brother, Savage Oppress.
In other words - TCW Series is Ambiguously-Canon at best and repeatedly contradicts Revenge Of The Sith - I.E. Ahsoka being able to duel evenly with Grevious - despite supporting-material for Revenge Of The Sith making it clear that only Kenobi could handle him.
And Mace Windu being unable to defeat Savage Oppress, even though Mace can defeat Sidious.
Revenge of the Sith takes place after Ahsoka left the jedi, so I'm not sure why you feel that is a valid point.
Also you're essentially arguing that novels that support your narrative count, but the tv show doesn't.
As for Mace, some PIS doesn't mean the entire show shouldn't count.
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
This is why it helps to actually read the fvcking backstories for this shit.In Labyrinth Of Evil, which takes place before Revenge Of The Sith, Mace Windu actually duels Grevious atop a speeding mag-lev train and Grevious's computer-brain analyzes Mace's Vapaad fighting-style.
Grevious's speed makes him able to dodge a lethal-thrust that Mace aims at his gut-sack and Mace barely survives Grevious's counter-kick that would've decapitated him.
Mace Force-pushes Grevious off the train, but a Separatist-hovercraft speeding below them catches Grevious.
Afterwards, Mace tells Kenobi that Grevious has analyzed his Vapaad-style, and that Grevious's analytical-abilities and speed are too much for any available Jedi to handle except Kenobi.
Since Mace and Yoda need to stay and defend Coruscant, they send Kenobi to hunt Grevious down - since any other Jedi would be slaughtered.
Okay. Why didn't Mace just use the force on him? It's worked before. I know you say he force pushes him, but I'm talking about when he damaged him and gave him his cough.
That means that Yoda and [B]a little kid attack at the same speed, you fvcking idiot.That makes sense to you? 🙂
If their speed isn't slowed down - that means a little kid is as fast as Yoda.
I'm not arguing it is not slowed down I'm arguing that is too vague to tell us anything. It doesn't give us any way to measure the speeds they are actually moving at.
According to George Lucas - he does. 🙂
Feats say otherwise.
Hundreds of Jedi died in the very first battle of the Clone Wars.By the wars end, the Jedi had incurred thousands of casualties.
During the Battle Of Coruscant - just before
Revenge Of The Sith - Grevious brutally slaughters a dozen Jedi guarding Chancellor Palpatine.So sending multiple Jedi wouldn't do jack shit - and they didn't have the available personnel at that point to send more than Kenobi anyway.
Mace Windu tells Kenobi at the end of the Battle Of Coruscant that he is the only Jedi they have (with the exception of Mace himself and Yoda) capable of taking out Grevious due to Grevious's capability to analyze his opponent's fighting style and his speed. [/B]
Anakin was literally right there when Obi Wan leaves to go fight Grievous. Why not send them both? And why didn't Obi Wan use his amazing speed to overwhelm Anakin?
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
This is why it helps to actually read the fvcking backstories for this shit.In Labyrinth Of Evil, which takes place before Revenge Of The Sith, Mace Windu actually duels Grevious atop a speeding mag-lev train and Grevious's computer-brain analyzes Mace's Vapaad fighting-style.
Grevious's speed makes him able to dodge a lethal-thrust that Mace aims at his gut-sack and Mace barely survives Grevious's counter-kick that would've decapitated him.
Mace Force-pushes Grevious off the train, but a Separatist-hovercraft speeding below them catches Grevious.
Afterwards, Mace tells Kenobi that Grevious has analyzed his Vapaad-style, and that Grevious's analytical-abilities and speed are too much for any available Jedi to handle except Kenobi.
Since Mace and Yoda need to stay and defend Coruscant, they send Kenobi to hunt Grevious down - since any other Jedi would be slaughtered.That means that Yoda and [B]a little kid attack at the same speed
, you fvcking idiot.That makes sense to you? 🙂
If their speed isn't slowed down - that means a little kid is as fast as Yoda.
According to George Lucas - he does. 🙂
Hundreds of Jedi died in the very first battle of the Clone Wars.
By the wars end, the Jedi had incurred thousands of casualties.
During the Battle Of Coruscant - just before
Revenge Of The Sith - Grevious brutally slaughters a dozen Jedi guarding Chancellor Palpatine.So sending multiple Jedi wouldn't do jack shit - and they didn't have the available personnel at that point to send more than Kenobi anyway.
Mace Windu tells Kenobi at the end of the Battle Of Coruscant that he is the only Jedi they have (with the exception of Mace himself and Yoda) capable of taking out Grevious due to Grevious's capability to analyze his opponent's fighting style and his speed. [/B]
Wth are you talking about? Yoda was attacking far faster than a child. Are you stupid?
Again, writer's intentions allowed mere humans to react and content with Jedi. This contradicts the theory that Jedi move and attack faster than humans can perceive.
Originally posted by Surtur
Okay. Why didn't Mace just use the force on him? It's worked before. I know you say he force pushes him, but I'm talking about when he damaged him and gave him his cough.
After that battle, Mace knew and told Kenobi that Grevious at that point had analyzed Mace's fighting-style.
That meant if Grevious and Mace fought again, there might be a chance that Grevious could kill Mace.
Grevious hadn't fought Kenobi before, so Kenobi's Soresu style was still foreign to Grevious, and Kenobi still had a chance to definitely kill him.
At that point, Grevious might still figure out a way to kill Mace in battle before Mace had the opportunity to use Force Crush again.
Originally posted by Surtur
I'm not arguing it is not slowed down I'm arguing that is too vague to tell us anything. It doesn't give us any way to measure the speeds they are actually moving at.
Exactly - and that is precisely what the tie-in novels were written for. 🙂
Originally posted by Surtur
Feats say otherwise.
Originally posted by Surtur
I'm not arguing it is not slowed down
His Canonical feats don't say otherwise - they establish that he can strike at 20 times per second - since the onscreen-speed is obviously slowed down for the audience.
Originally posted by Surtur
Anakin was literally right there when Obi Wan leaves to go fight Grievous. Why not send them both? And why didn't Obi Wan use his amazing speed to overwhelm Anakin?
Because Anakin and Obi-Wan were both fighting at the same speed.
And Anakin wanted to go fvck Padme.
Originally posted by h1a8
Wth are you talking about? Yoda was attacking far faster than a child. Are you stupid?
No he wasn't, you fvcking moron.
Look at both videos again - Yoda and the kid both attack at the same speed!
One is the Grandmaster of the Order and the most powerful Jedi in the universe.
The other is a little boy.
- This is why onscreen-speed is not used for Jedi and Sith - because a little boy obviously doesn't fight as fast as the Grandmaster of the Jedi Order - the speed is slowed down for the audience. You idiot.
Originally posted by h1a8
Again, writer's intentions allowed mere humans to react and content with Jedi. This contradicts the theory that Jedi move and attack faster than humans can perceive.
OK - and I'll ask again - which mere Humans react to the Jedi's speed without getting beaten by them?
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
No he wasn't, you fvcking moron.Look at both videos again - Yoda and the kid both attack at the same speed!
One is the Grandmaster of the Order and the most powerful Jedi in the universe.
The other is a little boy.
- This is why onscreen-speed is not used for Jedi and Sith - because a little boy obviously doesn't fight as fast as the Grandmaster of the Jedi Order - the speed is slowed down for the audience. You idiot.
OK - and I'll ask again - which mere Humans react to the Jedi's speed without getting beaten by them?
I thought you were referring to a real life child.
In the scene you posted Yoda was moving faster than that kid force user.
Anyone who ever watched the movie can clearly see Yoda is fighting with great speed. No one who saw the movie thought, "oh Yoda is attacking slow as hell."
You are trolling now.
I'm done engaging that nonsense. It'snot worth my time.
Get beaten by them? That's irrelevant. You are moving the goalposts. Finn was able to react to and contend with a Jedi, another character was able to blitz shoot a Jedi (he was alone), etc
Originally posted by h1a8
I thought you were referring to a real life child.
You're seriously that stupid?
Originally posted by h1a8
In the scene you posted Yoda was moving faster than that kid force user.Anyone who ever watched the movie can clearly see Yoda is fighting with great speed.
They both attacked with the same speed.
You need to buy a pair of glasses.
Originally posted by h1a8
No one who saw the movie thought, "oh Yoda is attacking slow as hell."
When did I ever claim that? You fvcking retard.
Originally posted by h1a8
You are trolling now.
No - you're losing and you're pathetically retreating because you have no argument left.
That's fine - run away, mongoloid - go crawl into a corner and lick that space between your legs where balls should be.
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm done engaging that nonsense. It'snot worth my time.
Yeah - 'cause you lost.
You got nothing left to say.
Originally posted by h1a8
Get beaten by them? That's irrelevant. You are moving the goalposts. Finn was able to react to and contend with a Jedi, another character was able to blitz shoot a Jedi (he was alone), etc
You're talking about the same movie where a complete novice was able to wield a lightsaber without a connection to the Force and 0% training.
George Lucas already established that people need training with a lightsaber just to avoid badly injuring themselves.
- It's also the same movie where Kylo got sliced over and over again by Rey with a lightsaber and he didn't get seriously injured.
Disney star wars is retarded - if you're using feats from that movie - then you have already lost.