Originally posted by DamborgsonIf I didn't make it clear enough for you, the point is that over-analyzation of the list is not needed in this case. If you just go by that one page, maybe Superman can crack into the top 3 if he flies, maybe not... You can read into it all you want. Either way, that is just ONE depiction of the speed discrepancy between these characters, and there are ultimately far better sources to go by(which I posted as well.) Read this, compute this, comprehend this.
Thinking that Superman is top 3 is one thing, thinking that because his fist is slightly ahead of Zoom that the list which explicitly says he's 4th now becomes questionable as to whether he's 3rd or not...Check your Carver.
Check your Alberto.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah....because flying wise, no one can touch him.He's not called the fastest being in the multiverse, after all. It's perfectly ok for Superman not to be the best at something.
Different writers broski, in the same comic Wally says taking on Superman is suicidal.
😎😎😎😎
Originally posted by xJLxKing
1. Flash can’t fly
2. Picking out a few statements doesn’t not overwrite the various featsYes, there is a big difference between Superman and Wally at his best. There is no deny it.
The most recent flash war not only portrayed it but made it very clear.
You have a few vague statements to try and make your case. I have statements and direct feats. There is no reason to side with Superman on this
Flash isn't massively faster than Superman. Never has been.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Who gives a shit?
Yeah, show me a feat like Superman assembling the moon in seconds from Wally then.Flash isn't massively faster than Superman. Never has been.
easy, wally saved half a million people from nuclear blast in 0.00001 milisecond, one and two at a time carrying them 35 miles away
Originally posted by abhilegendCorrect. No equal while flying. 4th on foot.
He never said it's about flying speed.https://i.redd.it/jp645vwi8w711.png
Its just that he is unmatched.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Far inferior to what Superman did. Wally didn't even go FTL there.
writers errors happen all the time, when we look at a feat, we take what is SHOWN over narration
carrying half a million people one/two at a time in 0.00001 milisecond 35 miles away takes trillions times faster than light to do, everyone with basic math understanding should know that
sort of like superman having attosecond narration yet only shown flying supersonic/hypersonic speed stopping a bullet traveling only 830 feet persecond, is he really attosecond when he reach out his hand there? no
the moon rebuilding feat is more vague, it was done in a page we don't know specifically how long we only know its during the time of conversation with batman, we don't know exactly how many pieces, and the moon gravity would pull a lot of broken pieces back by it self after putting the major pieces back. not saying it's not impressive but flashes have many feats on the level, theoretically the flash can reach infinity speed, the speedforce is multiversal force, the only reason the flash is not omnipresent is because barry or wally hasn't be able to become one with the entire speed force. even then, the new52 continuity existed because amped barry with the speed of bart was able to run really fast. when was the last time superman changed continuity by running fast?
Originally posted by MrMindNew52 was Dr Manhattan.
writers errors happen all the time, when we look at a feat, we take what is SHOWN over narrationcarrying half a million people one/two at a time in 0.00001 milisecond 35 miles away takes trillions times faster than light to do, everyone with basic math understanding should know that
sort of like superman having attosecond narration yet only shown flying supersonic/hypersonic speed stopping a bullet traveling only 830 feet persecond, is he really attosecond when he reach out his hand there? no
the moon rebuilding feat is more vague, it was done in a page we don't know specifically how long we only know its during the time of conversation with batman, we don't know exactly how many pieces, and the moon gravity would pull a lot of broken pieces back by it self after putting the major pieces back. not saying it's not impressive but flashes have many feats on the level, theoretically the flash can reach infinity speed, the speedforce is multiversal force, the only reason the flash is not omnipresent is because barry or wally hasn't be able to become one with the entire speed force. even then, the new52 continuity existed because amped barry with the speed of bart was able to run really fast. when was the last time superman changed continuity by running fast?
Bart held the speedforce entire.
anyway most of Flashes feats should be interchangeable anyway since technically all flashes are capable of the same feats when their power come from the same place
Originally posted by Juntai
New52 was Dr Manhattan.Bart held the speedforce entire.
bart holding the speedforce was before, during fastest man alive arc
I'm talking about flashpoint, Barry's run that broke continuity was amped by Bart's speed, bart who was absorbing speedforce at different points of time caught up with barry in the timestream and gave him all his speed, when bart became the white flash
Originally posted by Juntai
Correct. No equal while flying. 4th on foot.
flash has shown to be faster than superman in multiple instances
https://imgur.com/3SVqLwT
https://imgur.com/xfi2nt3
https://imgur.com/a/wPm5blD
Originally posted by abhilegend
Who gives a shit?
Yeah, show me a feat like Superman assembling the moon in seconds from Wally then.Flash isn't massively faster than Superman. Never has been.
Flash outran the big bang, he's absolutely massively faster than superman, you being salty about it doesn't change that fact. it's known among other sites and to the public, deal with it.
Originally posted by MrMindDoesn’t change anything from what I said in my quote. He’s foot racing Flash there. In all three scans he’s largely trying to talk to him. Hell in one of them that’s all he does then let’s Barry run off.
flash has shown to be faster than superman in multiple instanceshttps://imgur.com/3SVqLwT
https://imgur.com/xfi2nt3
https://imgur.com/a/wPm5blD
Superman has ran Wally dow from behind, made effortless work of Barry with the flick trick, and also did similar to Zoom when he was tired of him and made Bart seem slow.
Outside of the atmosphere where Superman can cut loose he’s the fastest. On foot Wally is.
Originally posted by MrMind
writers errors happen all the time, when we look at a feat, we take what is SHOWN over narration
Maybe you do. But even with calculation, it's far inferior to what Superman did.
carrying half a million people one/two at a time in 0.00001 milisecond 35 miles away takes trillions times faster than light to do, everyone with basic math understanding should know that
sort of like superman having attosecond narration yet only shown flying supersonic/hypersonic speed stopping a bullet traveling only 830 feet persecond, is he really attosecond when he reach out his hand there? no
Where is he stated to be flying hypersonic like Wally was stated to be?
the moon rebuilding feat is more vague, it was done in a page we don't know specifically how long we only know its during the time of conversation with batman, we don't know exactly how many pieces, and the moon gravity would pull a lot of broken pieces back by it self after putting the major pieces back. not saying it's not impressive but flashes have many feats on the level, theoretically the flash can reach infinity speed, the speedforce is multiversal force, the only reason the flash is not omnipresent is because barry or wally hasn't be able to become one with the entire speed force. even then, the new52 continuity existed because amped barry with the speed of bart was able to run really fast. when was the last time superman changed continuity by running fast?
No, it isn't vague at all.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Ok, so, now that I logged out of my Darksaint account, let's do some math.1). Time frame
[b]Flash
0.00001 us (microseconds). That's 1 second * 10^(-11) seconds.
Superman
Let's approximate it, based on the dialogue, at 20 seconds (and for easier calculation, to make it round, as we'll split this time in two later...you'll see why).
So the timeframe in which Flash did his feat is about 2 * 10^12 times smaller.
2). Distance and speed
Flash
Total number of people = 532000
Carried "one at a time, sometimes two" for a distance of 35 miles.
Let's say he carries 1.5 people on average.
The total distance moved by Flash = 532000/1.5 (total number of people/people he carries on average) * 70 miles (there and back) = 24,826,666 miles.Turn into kilometers, that's aprox 40,000,000 km.
He did this in 10^(-11) seconds.
That means that he travelled around 13 trillion times the speed of light.
So Flash moves at 13 * 10^12 times the speed of light.
Superman
Let's start with a few pointers:
- Total volume of the moon = 21.9 billion cubic km
- We can see (1st panel) that there's no large pieces of the moon left, until Superman starts merging the debris:
https://imgur.com/a/79ksQfd
- We can see some of the chunks Superman is carying, in the same issue, like here:
https://imgur.com/a/EVcHB5j
And here:
https://imgur.com/a/MU0Abby
https://imgur.com/a/JiUZbZ7
https://imgur.com/a/C4DvJYV
Remember: This is after he already blitzed the debris to merge it at superspeed, and it's just the finishing touches, so the original pieces very probably were very small. . But, for the sake of the argument..let's take it like that.
We can observe that some of them are fist sized, some of them are human sized, some are bigger. Now, the average human body has a volume of 95 liters. Let's say 100. That's 0.1 cubic meters. But, let's be generous. Let's make the average debris as 100 times as large as that and say it's 10 cubic meters.So we have the moon at 21.9 billion cubic km, split into pieces of average 10 cubic meters.
21.9 * 10^9 * (m^3)^3 = 21.9 * 10^9 * 10^9 = 21.9 * 10^18 cubic meters total volume of the moon.
That means that there are 21.9 * 10^18 cubic meters (total volume) divided by 10 cubic meters (chunks volume) = 21.9 * 10^17 pieces of moon. Lets downgrade even more, and say it's 20 * 10^17 = 2 * 10^18 pieces of moon or, better said, 2 quintillion pieces.
- So we know we have 2 quintillion pieces. Now, we move on to the volume they're spreaded out. From the rebuilding scan, we can see that the diameter of the sphere in which they were thrown (i.e. omnidirectional) is approximately 2 times the diameter of the moon. That is 2*3,474 km = 6948 ~ 7000 km.
The volume of the sphere, V = 1.43675504E+21 m3 =~ 2 * 10^21 cubic meters
To make calculations possible, let's assume that the 2 * 10^ 18 pieces of debris are evenly distributes in the sphere, which would make the distance between two adjacent pieces inside it 100 meters.
Now, what other information do we have?
Superman was taking these pieces, and was grouping and fusing them, to make a bigger piece. Then he moved on to other pieces, and did the same thing.
And then he took those two bigger pieces he fused, and fused THEM together.
That's why we see different chunks, all over in space, being formed, as he fuses groups of debris together.
Let's say that Superman fuses them in groups of 100 chunks of 100 times his size each. And then he moves on to the next group, does the same. And then he fuses these two, and moves on to others, etc.
That means Superman travels, just for the first grouping of debris into groups of 100:
The distance between the chunks - i.e. in absolute total, if he were to fuse the moon in ONE go, he'd have to travel 2 quintillion (pieces) * 100 meters. That is 2 * 10^17 km. That is already a 100 billion times the speed of light, and that's if he had played "snake".Next, he'd have to take these groups of 100, and let's say fuse them into another group of 100 (remember, each of these 100 is already 100 times larger than him).
The distance, is again, the same, since the bigger chunks would have the same overall distance between them. That is another 2*10^17 km.
And, also, remember something else - the bigger the pieces he has to fuse, the more precise, and the more time, he has to take to do the process of fusing itself.
He wants to make the Moon the EXACT same way it was.
Let's say he ALWAYS fuses pieces by grouping them into 100 (even when some of them get as big as mountains -- essentially forcing him to fuse 100 mountains in one go...then 10,000 mountains with another 10,000 mountains in one go, etc.)
That means, in order to get the FINALIZED moon, by incrementally bigger chunks, he'd have to do this trip:
The distance he has to travel each time = (2*10^17)
The number of times, in total, he has to travel it, which is 2 * 10 ^18 / 100 = 2 * 10 ^16.So, f*cking finally, if anybody follows this, we have the final distance:
2 * 10^17 km * 2 * 10 ^16 = 4 * 10^ 33 km.This is also assuming that all of the pieces that he has to fuse are literally one next to another, and that he doesn't have to travel in a completely different part of the sphere to get it.
Think of it like a convenient puzzle, where the pieces are split over an area, but they're in the exact same order as they were when complete.
How convenient! But let's assume it's so...
Now, we go back to the beginning of the post where we approximate this all took 20 seconds, judging by the dialogue with Batman.
How much of that time is spent FUSING, with the utmost precision to make it exactly how it was, these large pieces (remember, he does this with his hands/heat vision and whatnot), and how much time is spend travelling from one piece to the next? The reason I made it a round 20 seconds is because it's reasonable to assume it was half/half.
So he spent 10 seconds travelling 4 * 10 ^33 km. That's 4*10^32 km per second.
So Superman is, in terms of flight speed travelled, aprox 10^26 times the speed of light.
So that's 100 SEPTILION times the speed of light. Or, to put it better, it's a a 100 million billion billion times the speed of light. Or 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times the speed of light.
As far as the other 10 seconds he spend fusing? He had to do the fusing process, initially, for the first grouping, 2 quintillion times, for each of the initial pieces.
Then, he had to do it 0.02 quintillion times, for the bigger pieces, obtained by grouping the smaller ones. Then 0.0002 for...etc.Let's approximate it at, simply, 2 quintillion times. What's a few trillion between friends?
How much, from his perspective (i.e. his '1 second passes'😉, do you think it took Superman for the pieces, on average? Remember, the bigger the pieces get, the more he has to fuse, the difficult it becomes. AND he has to put them EXACTLY the way they were.
Let's average of 50 seconds, from his perspective. The first ones are fast, but the later ones are slower. Remember the veritable mountains (and bigger) that I mentioned, about Superman having to fuse perfectly? Do you think it would take him 50 seconds without superspeed? Of course not. But again, let's take the minimum.
That means, that what would be 10 seconds from 'normal time' perspective, would be 50 * 2 * 10^18 from Superman's perspective. That means each second, from his perspective, would be 10^19 seconds.
To put this into a context that can be easier grasped, from Superman's perception level, inside a single second, he lives the entire age of the Universe, ten times over.
You can adjust any number, but this is the ballpark, folks.
[/B]
Wally is fast at foot, Superman is faster at flying. And its not just one instance.
"Unmatchable speed".
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Flash outran the big bang, he's absolutely massively faster than superman, you being salty about it doesn't change that fact. it's known among other sites and to the public, deal with it.
