Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
😂Well, I tried.
What are Obi's worst showings? His encounters with Dooku, I guess?
Yeah, but even then, it's Dooku of all people.
In the CW he did get captured a fair bit, but there was always that kind of sense that he either was expecting it, or that he just always had a plan B, C, D etc.
Originally posted by Psychotron
That's mostly just EU wanking. In TPM a Padawan Obi-Wan tapping into his anger cut his saber in half and put him on his ass. Maul had exploit a bottomless pit and a TK attack to beat Padawan Kenobi. In Clone Wars a pre-prime Obi-Wan was winning against him and Savage until Maul used the Force. ANH Kenobi held his own against Vader. It's no surprise he would beat an old, broken down Maul.
Okay you don't sound like a Maul fan at all claiming he had to exploit a bottomless pit to beat a padawan. Kenobi was already floored and disarmed before he went down the pit. And calling him a padawan is about as valid as saying Vader also got beat by a padawan (Luke). But fact is they were both Knighted a few moments later. But at least Maul fought equally to Padawan and Master before hand, and then later beat them both one on one, before losing by being careless and cocky.
Obi-Wan never put Maul down in TCW, and Maul actually beat him in their first fight (albeit circumstances).
Im not arguing that Maul shouldn't have lost to Ben Kenobi. But lets take your comparison of Ben Kenobi being a match for Vader. Old Maul was also a match for Ahsoka. So at the very least we could have expected an Ahsoka vs Vader level of battle.
Originally posted by Psychotron
I guess you're not a Kurosawa fan.
Cant say I am. And shouldn't have to be, nor should I have to go through all the commentary, to get the gist of the fight.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Yeah; I don't think it's at all unfair to say that by the time of REBELS, Maul just isn't on Kenobi's level anymore. Kenobi is an elite Jedi Knight that had spent the years since TPM honing his skills, whereas Maul was still stuck in the past. His failed attempt to beat Kenobi the same way he did Qui-Gon is a microcosm of their entire arc.
Thats fine, but as explained above, should at least be an Ahsoka vs Vader level fight.
The only reason it wasn't was because (according to Witer), Maul underestimated how good Ben Kenobi was at this point.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
In his arrogance, Maul probably thought it'd be a fitting end for Kenobi.
Actually according to Witwer Kenobi suckered him in to it. When he kept changing stances his last stance was Qui-Gon's stance. And thats when Maul jumps at him.
I told you I've heard every single commentary on that fight.
Anything to make me feel a little better about it 🙁
Originally posted by -Pr-
Yeah, but even then, it's Dooku of all people.In the CW he did get captured a fair bit, but there was always that kind of sense that he either was expecting it, or that he just always had a plan B, C, D etc.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. It's such a good line.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Okay you don't sound like a Maul fan at all claiming he had to exploit a bottomless pit to beat a padawan. Kenobi was already floored and disarmed before he went down the pit. And calling him a padawan is about as valid as saying Vader also got beat by a padawan (Luke). But fact is they were both Knighted a few moments later. But at least Maul fought equally to Padawan and Master before hand, and then later beat them both one on one, before losing by being careless and cocky.Obi-Wan never put Maul down in TCW, and Maul actually beat him in their first fight (albeit circumstances).
Im not arguing that Maul shouldn't have lost to Ben Kenobi. But lets take your comparison of Ben Kenobi being a match for Vader. Old Maul was also a match for Ahsoka. So at the very least we could have expected an Ahsoka vs Vader level of battle.
Cant say I am. And shouldn't have to be, nor should I have to go through all the commentary, to get the gist of the fight.
I liked him for what he was in TPM. I didn't like that they brought him back in CW, nor did I like his portrayal. Anyway, being floored and dropping your weapon doesn't mean you're defetead. Obi-Wan floored and disarmed Anakin in RotS but that wasn't even close to the end of the fight. If that pit wasn't there who knows what would have happened. Obi-Wan was fighting pretty evenly against Maul until then. I called him a Padawan to point out he was more than a decade away from his prime.
Maul was not fighting evenly against Jinn and Kenobi. They were pushing him back. He split them up because they were dangerous together.
He held his own in a saber duel with him and Savage, even managing to maim the latter. I'd say that means Kenobi was begining to eclipse Maul as a duelist.
I never said Ben was a match for Vader, only that he held his own. The comparisons to Ahsoha are meaningless because we don't know what exactly happened between her and Maul.
It's more about the style. There's nothing specific to get. They just wanted to do a Seven Samurai style fight instead of another long, drawn out fight. I found it refreshing.
Originally posted by XanatosForever
YouTube videoSorry, I couldn't resist. It's such a good line.
😂
Hey, to be fair, he did say they were going to "spring the trap". So I'm going to assume he expected something like this to happen.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Okay you don't sound like a Maul fan at all claiming he had to exploit a bottomless pit to beat a padawan. Kenobi was already floored and disarmed before he went down the pit. And calling him a padawan is about as valid as saying Vader also got beat by a padawan (Luke). But fact is they were both Knighted a few moments later. But at least Maul fought equally to Padawan and Master before hand, and then later beat them both one on one, before losing by being careless and cocky.Obi-Wan never put Maul down in TCW, and Maul actually beat him in their first fight (albeit circumstances).
Im not arguing that Maul shouldn't have lost to Ben Kenobi. But lets take your comparison of Ben Kenobi being a match for Vader. Old Maul was also a match for Ahsoka. So at the very least we could have expected an Ahsoka vs Vader level of battle.
Cant say I am. And shouldn't have to be, nor should I have to go through all the commentary, to get the gist of the fight.
Thats fine, but as explained above, should at least be an Ahsoka vs Vader level fight.
The only reason it wasn't was because (according to Witer), Maul underestimated how good Ben Kenobi was at this point.
Actually according to Witwer Kenobi suckered him in to it. When he kept changing stances his last stance was Qui-Gon's stance. And thats when Maul jumps at him.
I told you I've heard every single commentary on that fight.
Anything to make me feel a little better about it 🙁
I thought it was better than Ahsoka v Vader, tbh. I mean, I get that you wanted the fight to go on longer, but I don't see the point of it.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Okay you don't sound like a Maul fan at all claiming he had to exploit a bottomless pit to beat a padawan. Kenobi was already floored and disarmed before he went down the pit. And calling him a padawan is about as valid as saying Vader also got beat by a padawan (Luke). But fact is they were both Knighted a few moments later. But at least Maul fought equally to Padawan and Master before hand, and then later beat them both one on one, before losing by being careless and cocky.Obi-Wan never put Maul down in TCW, and Maul actually beat him in their first fight (albeit circumstances).
Im not arguing that Maul shouldn't have lost to Ben Kenobi. But lets take your comparison of Ben Kenobi being a match for Vader. Old Maul was also a match for Ahsoka. So at the very least we could have expected an Ahsoka vs Vader level of battle.
Cant say I am. And shouldn't have to be, nor should I have to go through all the commentary, to get the gist of the fight.
Thats fine, but as explained above, should at least be an Ahsoka vs Vader level fight.
The only reason it wasn't was because (according to Witer), Maul underestimated how good Ben Kenobi was at this point.
Actually according to Witwer Kenobi suckered him in to it. When he kept changing stances his last stance was Qui-Gon's stance. And thats when Maul jumps at him.
I told you I've heard every single commentary on that fight.
Anything to make me feel a little better about it 🙁
Agreed with most of your stance, but wholeheartedly disagree with the Ashoka vs Vader fight.
Ahsoka should have died in that encounter, the fact that she survived against a newly full of rage and hate Vader was stupid.
Originally posted by SquallX
Agreed with most of your stance, but wholeheartedly disagree with the Ashoka vs Vader fight.Ahsoka should have died in that encounter, the fact that she survived against a newly full of rage and hate Vader was stupid.
Bingo. And thats been the issue with Rebels. Filoni plays favourites.
Her surviving past the OT is outright stupid as well.
Originally posted by -Pr-I thought it was better than Ahsoka v Vader, tbh.
Well thats fair enough. It clearly just worked for you then.
I think it would have worked better for me if Maul was absolutely wrecking everyone else in Rebels before this fight happened.
But instead we had that embarrassing Kanan moment (another example of Filoni playing favourites), which just makes Maul seem more like a doofus at this point in time, than it makes Kenobi seem like an elite.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You're just mad because first Obi sodomized your Ani and now did the same thing to Maul 🙂
Damn you know me too well.
Originally posted by Psychotron
I liked him for what he was in TPM. I didn't like that they brought him back in CW, nor did I like his portrayal. Anyway, being floored and dropping your weapon doesn't mean you're defetead. Obi-Wan floored and disarmed Anakin in RotS but that wasn't even close to the end of the fight. If that pit wasn't there who knows what would have happened. Obi-Wan was fighting pretty evenly against Maul until then. I called him a Padawan to point out he was more than a decade away from his prime.Maul was not fighting evenly against Jinn and Kenobi. They were pushing him back. He split them up because they were dangerous together.
He held his own in a saber duel with him and Savage, even managing to maim the latter. I'd say that means Kenobi was begining to eclipse Maul as a duelist.
I never said Ben was a match for Vader, only that he held his own. The comparisons to Ahsoha are meaningless because we don't know what exactly happened between her and Maul.
It's more about the style. There's nothing specific to get. They just wanted to do a Seven Samurai style fight instead of another long, drawn out fight. I found it refreshing.
I could easily address all this point by point but its best left for the debates forum. We are discussing best lightsaber fights here.
But if I was to take your interpretation of the fights, then basically what you're saying is "Maul was comparatively pretty shit from day 1, so him going down in 2 moves was a fitting end".
So I will just say this: Maul located Kenobi, and could have just blown him up with his ship or something. Or hired a bunch of bounty hunters to take him out together.
However he seemed pretty confident he could take out Kenobi on his own in a lightsaber duel, or that he at least had a decent shot at taking him... Which to me would indicate their previous fights were not as one sided as you are making out.
Originally posted by Psychotron
It's more about the style. There's nothing specific to get. They just wanted to do a Seven Samurai style fight instead of another long, drawn out fight. I found it refreshing.
That's fine. Like I told Pr, would have been much more effective for me personally by Bigging Maul up more during the series. Like having him shown as the clear superior to Ahsoka/Kanan. Having the Rebels crew continuously crap their pants from him. Then it would have worked IMO.
Otherwise as a Maul fan, ill tell you it seems like once Lucas was gone and the reigns taken off Filoni, he just began crapping on the character.
When a favourite of yours goes down in 2 moves, after hes already been crapped on, then you'll understand.
Either way, there was nothing to the fight anyway to name it as one of the great all time Star Wars duels IMHO. Although I admit the dialogue before and after the fight was good.