Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Agreed, you posted a heck of a dodge lmao.So again: based on your post's logic, is Batman herald level? And would you agree that when placing him in threads with herald characters, his showings against say Two Face and fat little Penguin should be discounted?
You just gave one of those "I know you are but what am I" responses LOL.
Batman's performances against herald levelers only, absent prep, would not put him close to herald level. So continue to discard Penguin under such circumstances as you have been. It makes the most sense. Similar for Black Panther, Cap, etc.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
You just gave one of those "I know you are but what am I" responses LOL.Batman's performances against herald levelers only, absent prep, would not put him close to herald level. So continue to discard Penguin under such circumstances as you have been. It makes the most sense. Similar for Black Panther, Cap, etc.
...that's precisely what you did. I asked a question, and you answered with, well, YOU say XYZ lol, instead of actually answering the question.
Batman took on Zoom (who hits harder than Superman) armed with only a piece of metal.
Took punches from a bloodlusted, amped WW without his suit on whilst injured. Then in another instance, was fighting a bloodlusted Eclipso WW.
Took punches from Mongul without prep (Mongul, who doesn't exactly hold back).
Took punches from a bloodlusted MMH without prep.
Took punches and was dancing around Damage WITHOUT prep.
Took an amped bloodlusted Shazams lightning without prep.
None of the instances I mentioned actually had prep lmao. So iyo, where does he sit tier wise?
Oh yeah, and forgot Lobo lol.
None of the characters I've named are street tier, right? So his survival record against heralds is perfect - none of them have killed him, even without prep.
So again, now that I have educated you on the lack of prep: where does he sit?
For your reading pleasure:
Zoom (the guy who blitzes Flashes for fun, ACTIVELY trying to KO Batman, who he caught COMPLETELY by surprise):
WW (who had the GoW amp, was bloodlusted, and Bruce was severely injured, and without his suit - literally sucker punched):
Damage (who isn't exactly holding back, and only broke three ribs with his punches. despite being able to stalemate Superman and overload Parasite, and was the toughest opponent WW had ever faced - not to mention punches harder than Doomsday):
I can go on, but you get the gist. Batman had zero prep in these three instances for his opponents. Was sucker punched in two of them, and didn't even have his gear in one of them.
According to your logic, we should ignore all of his other showings, right? Because that is what you are doing with the Beyonders. Ignoring their less than stellar showings, in favour of their single showing.
Edit: one more:
Against King Shazam, who is bloodlusted and amped, WITHOUT even using his own gear (IOW, what he picked up - so ZERO prep):
And this is just in the last couple of years or so. I'm not even digging that deep.
LOL. I thought you were going to post him defeating upper tiers? You're posting scans of him surviving being brutalized and being to some degree effective. And he doesn't just pick up something. He uses his jet to propel him at Billy with a batarang while Billy is engaged with Superman who he is about to be stab with the other batarang. And it accomplishes nothing beyond saving Superman. You included a double team LOL.
Comics have established that Batman and his like will be effective against top tiers to an unrealistic degree and above his effectiveness with other streets. So it is reasonable to base his performance against top tiers of both companies on how he performs against just them in the books regardless of how he does against streets.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Though tbf, he needed Kryp tech to heal from that lightning, and had his heart stopped.....I got way too excited lol.
Saw that. Batman is still shown well below those guys and there is some level of consistency that is totally absent in the Beyonders example. Marvel has touched on the notion of cosmics having trouble with lower level beings due to not being prepared for their simplicity or something. An attempt to give reasoning for such inconsistency.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
LOL. I thought you were going to post him defeating upper tiers? You're posting scans of him surviving being brutalized and being to some degree effective. And he doesn't just pick up something. He uses his jet to propel him at Billy with a batarang while Billy is engaged with Superman who he is about to be stab with the other batarang. And it accomplishes nothing beyond saving Superman. You included a double team LOL.Comics have established that Batman and his like will be effective against top tiers to an unrealistic degree and above his effectiveness with other streets. So it is reasonable to base his performance against top tiers of both companies on how he performs against just them in the books regardless of how he does against streets.
Its not his jet. He didn't even bring it. The jet belongs to the Batman who Laughs.
Iow, no prep. Double team or no, heralds who can move mountains would make humans a pink smear on the pavement.
So my point is, against heralds, he's got near or perfect survival.. But as you say, we should disregard his showings. I'm perfectly ok with that, as I have said before.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Its not his jet. He didn't even bring it. The jet belongs to the Batman who Laughs.Iow, no prep. Double team or no, heralds who can move mountains would make humans a pink smear on the pavement.
So my point is, against heralds, he's got near or perfect survival.. But as you say, we should disregard his showings. I'm perfectly ok with that, as I have said before.
So he uses someone else's gear right?
Cool. No more using Mongoose etc., against Thor when Thor is pitted against a top tier right?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well am sure you have TONS of Thor's speed feats against heralds/abstracts etc - make a thread with all of his high showings.Oh wait. That's what the Thor/street thread was all about. It used all of Thor's HIGH END feats lmao. You remember what the thread actually was about right?
Thor is practically never out speeded by heralds and cosmics.
I'll have to look. On the one vs Logan and Punisher, your entire argument was based on his fights with streets and their fights with heralds.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
So he uses someone else's gear right?
The point was that he had ZERO prep. You were saying he had prep.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Thor is practically never out speeded by heralds and cosmics.I'll have to look. On the one vs Logan and Punisher, your entire argument was based on his fights with streets and their fights with heralds.
Which was a direct result of the Thor showing relative to streets.
And the next important step - Superman's showings against cosmics and abstracts.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Comics have established that Batman and his like will be effective against top tiers to an unrealistic degree and above his effectiveness with other streets. So it is reasonable to base his performance against top tiers of both companies on how he performs against just them in the books regardless of how he does against streets.
OK. So we have herald level Batman (I mean, he still loses, so let's make him a Low Herald). I'm OK with this.