Also if you post it here, it will get lost because you know they will follow up with spam posts. Best thing to do is check if you can create a challenge thread. 1 post to ‘prove’ your argument. No spam, no IMO crap, just one post to argue your view. One post from each person that wants to participate. Then a final post from the moderator to rule on it.
Then he won't have a chance to make his case, and if the ruling goes against him, he will never again be able to use it as a physical feat for Hulk.
His choice. We've certainly expended plenty of energy in our 13 pages of back and forth, what's one post more? He also has Celey helping him, so that's two posts to convince a mod to my one post
Originally posted by carver9because deep down you know DS is right.
You're right Diesldude, I'm not doing a one post challenge right now. Nice observance.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85yep Agreed. They do this all the time, after being proven wrong, same argument 3 months later like nothing happened. A mod ruling is definitely needed here.
Then he won't have a chance to make his case, and if the ruling goes against him, he will never again be able to use it as a physical feat for Hulk.His choice. We've certainly expended plenty of energy in our 13 pages of back and forth, what's one post more? He also has Celey helping him, so that's two posts to convince a mod to my one post
Edit, I’m not including celey in that group that does this.
My issue is with the way Pandora's box, clocked at 133.45 Hercs, is treated. To me, the rating of 133.45 Hercs is a measure of how MAGICAL the item is, NOT physical force.
Proof
Dr Cosimo, the inventor of the Herc, describes exactly what a Herc measures:
Every magical/mythological thing will give off an energy which can be measured, at ALL times. As Herc punches, the max amount he radiates off him is 1 Herc. However, this is not the kinetic energy from his fist - we cannot just take his best punching feat, multiply by 133.45 and call it a day.
The box radiated 133.45 Hercs. Monica Rappacini, a normal human, radiated 0.53 Hercs due to the wishing well water on her skin (and was easily restrained by a human Jen Walters)::
We DON'T say her skin is tanking 0.5 of Herc's best punch from the water, do we? Amadeus radiated 0.05:
We don't say Cho, a skinny Korean kid, is 5% of Herc's best punch, do we?
WBH, amped by Fin Fang Foom, at his most giant, only radiated 0.21 Hercs (so was half-ish as powerful as normal human Monica, and...four times as powerful as Cho):
In short: a Herc has nothing to do with how much physical damage something can do. Its a measure of how magical something is, NOT physical force.
An analogy is heat energy radiating off my body, which can be detected by scanners. When I punch, the max heat radiated by me is 1 DarkSaint.
This doesn't mean you can take my best lift, or my best punch, and equate it to the DarkSaint. Because all it measures is the energy radiating off me - as Cosimo explains in the first scan.
Source: Incredible Hulks #627 and #635.
Further scans showing that it's just a measure of mystical energy:
……
Hulk never withstood the physical equivalent of 133.45 Hercules punches in his lungs. He withstood an attack from an incredibly magical being, who had an unquantifiable internal attack. That's all.. We can't equate how 1 Herc relates to anything, because nobody here knows how much he radiates off him when he punches - just like none of you know how much heat I radiate when I punch. It's meaningless.
Summary
Let's say I created the DarkSaint unit, which measures the amount of energy hot things radiate. The max energy I expend when I punch is 1 DS.
I turn my oven on, and it measures at 133.45DSs. What does this mean? If I told you I once punched a 300lb guy off his feet, does it tell you how hot my oven is? If I tell you I can lift 1000lbs in the gym, does it tell you the precise temperature?
If I put some biscuits in the oven, is it tanking 133.45 of my best punches?
All you can say is that my oven is much hotter than me. That's it. Maybe you can ASSUME what an average guy radiates etc, but that is an assumption based on prior knowledge - assume you didn't know and couldn't search on Google.
It being sent, him replying (and assuming it's in your favour), won't mean anything to me, as I still think it inadmissible.
Anyway, so I thought I could rank other characters, lol.
Superman would be 0 Hercs.
Flash, GL (Hal etc) would be 0 Hercs.
WW would be.....1.5 Hercs? She's inanimate clay magically given life, whereas Herc is half human
Thor would be 2 Hercs (son of two gods, to Herculeses 1).
Alan Scott would be a bajillion Hercs, as he's meant to be all the wild magic in the Universes right?
Blue Marvel would be 0
Hyperion 0
Hulk would be 0.... although Immortal might be more, seeing as gamma is potentially magic. 0.5? Not as magical as a demigod like Herc, but definitely more magical than say Tony Stark or Clark.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It was ALWAYS about the magical aspect, though. My scan is from the preceding page, BEFORE she defines what a Herc is. She literally spells out that Hercs measure magical radiation. I.e. the AMOUNT OF ENERGY THAT IS BEING GIVEN OFF.It has been there from the very start. Not potential. Its radiating. Its literally being given out, lmao.
Don't care about BiBeast etc. That's a different issue. My point is that a Herc doesn't measure force. Again, it's like you radiating heat energy. I don't take the amount of heat energy you radiate, then say wow, my phone is radiating 1celeys, this means my hand is tanking one full punch from you!
Again ure examples r off.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Yes. It is. But pak specifically tied this fictional measurement to a maximum physical act from Hercules. Going back to Foom(17 hercs)is a perfect and easy enuff example since he is a smashy smash kind of character. When more esoteric examples r used like the energy from Pandora's box, one can assume that the hope creature that was trapped inside is capable of output roughly equaling a being of 133 Herculeses strength/power...
That is yhe takeaway. Pak is literally spelling it out.Again ure examples r off.
But multiple times they showed that they were using hercs to determine the amount of mystic energy they were being emitted by various beings and objects. If it was the force of an all out punch from Hercules, no normal human would have been able to survive being in the same vicinity of a being with even 1/10 of that power let alone half.
If a person is emitting half of hercs full punch at all times from their entire body then they would be a danger to other Normal humans and even metas but we saw that isn’t the case.
Originally posted by carver9
Humans have stood around while Celestials and Galactus were around. Diesldude, what are you talking about?
Celestial and Galactus are infinitely more powerful than Hercules but they weren’t attacking in those instances.
If what you’re saying is correct that, 1 herc = power of a all out punch by Hercules. Then someone emitting half a herc should be very dangerous right. Because that person is emitting half the power of Hercules all out punch at all times. It’s like constant all out attack. But we see see that’s not the case. When Hercules is on standby he gives off a certain percentage of hercs, but when he’s goes all out he gives off 1 herc worth of mystic energy. The power of his punch is physical.
It’s like DS heat analogy.
If I’m sitting around, not typing this post, I’m not emitting very little body heat, but let’s say I go to the gym and go to work on a punching bag, I will emitt a lot more heat.
That’s what the hercs are, it’s used to measure how much mystic energy a being releases. They have a constant, 1 herc = the amount of mystic energy Hercules emits when he goes all out punch.
They then use that to scale other beings to determine how much mystic energy have or are emitting. DS explained it better I guess.