And another thing to consider is direction and volume. Even if, for the sake of argument, she can block a lighting strike directed at her from the front or from the sky, Thor can release bolts in multiple directions at once as well as call aerial strikes while projecting bolts from his body:
I just can't see her warding off that kind of assault based on her overall defensive track record.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I wouldn't exactly call that smashing the shield to pieces. He hacked at the edge of the shield, cutting into it, and once the integrity of the shield was compromised he was able to eventually crack it open with a few more hits.I mean, that's indeed impressive, but you make it sound like he blew it apart with one hit.
P.s. A maul is a type of warhammer.
In real life if a sword smashed into a shield made of the same material it would shatter before it does anything to the shield. Therefore, Thanos' sword is made of a material that is far more durable than Captain America's shield. Now, we've seen an angry Thor slam Mjolnir into the shield and it didn't even dent it. It's safe to say that breaking the sword is more impressive than breaking Mjolnir in my opinion. That doesn't mean that Wanda is more powerful than Hela or anything, because Hela broke Mjolnir with a smile on her face, while Wanda struggled somewhat.
To be fair, slashing weapons are terrible against shields and armor. You need a piercing weapon, like an actual warhammer, or a blunt weapon to deal with that. So Mjolnir is actually better suited to smash the shield than a sword. Plus, Mjolnir is magical and has Thor's lightning, so it should be more powerful than Thanos' sword. I guess you could argue that Thanos is just that much stronger than Thor, but still. Either way, if Wanda can break the sword she can break Mjolnir.
Originally posted by Psychotron
In real life if a sword smashed into a shield made of the same material it would shatter before it does anything to the shield. Therefore, Thanos' sword is made of a material that is far more durable than Captain America's shield. Now, we've seen an angry Thor slam Mjolnir into the shield and it didn't even dent it. It's safe to say that breaking the sword is more impressive than breaking Mjolnir in my opinion. That doesn't mean that Wanda is more powerful than Hela or anything, because Hela broke Mjolnir with a smile on her face, while Wanda struggled somewhat.
Yes, I believe it's clear that Thanos' sword > Cap's shield. That, however, doesn't mean it's tougher than Mjolnir. Remember that Thor only ever hit Cap's shield once with full intent, and that he struck it right at the center where the shield is toughest. Thanos hacked at the edge of the shield, not the center, and he only managed to damage it after repeated blows.
There's also the fact that Thor isn't physically as strong as Thanos, and that also needs to be considered.
And again, breaking a sword blade is much easier than breaking a hammer's head, presuming both are made with the same metal, with the same tempering, with the same level of craftmanship. Breaking a sword blade doesn't mean you can just as easily break a hammer head.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It wasn't a shield she fended Thanos off with though. It was a concentrated energy beam. She basically went DBZ for that scene lol. And it seemed to me more like she gripped his sword with her powers (that classic martial arts movie catching the sword strike bit, but with tk instead). Could be wrong, but that's how it visually appeared to me.
A concentrated energy beam or an energy shield. Small but still an energy shiled.
Besides, we have indeed seen Wanda create energy shields back at AoU and CW.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And another thing to consider is direction and volume. Even if, for the sake of argument, she can block a lighting strike directed at her from the front or from the sky, Thor can release bolts in multiple directions at once as well as call aerial strikes while projecting bolts from his body:I just can't see her warding off that kind of assault based on her overall defensive track record.
Such attacks are useful at close range, but why should we assume that Wanda will allow the fight to reach there?
Also, how powerful are such lightning? We saw them being effective against dead Asgardians, which where getting killed by normal machine guns, whilst Wanda was blocking simillar bullets with Energy Shields in Civil War.
EG Wanda clears.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
A concentrated energy beam or an energy shield. Small but still an energy shiled.Besides, we have indeed seen Wanda create energy shields back at AoU and CW.
Such attacks are useful at close range, but why should we assume that Wanda will allow the fight to reach there?
Also, how powerful are such lightning? We saw them being effective against dead Asgardians, which where getting killed by normal machine guns, whilst Wanda was blocking simillar bullets with Energy Shields in Civil War.
EG Wanda clears.
Well, she did let Thanos initially get close during their fight. Granted, she did push him back and disarm him eventually, but he was pretty much within touching distance of her at one point. And at that range, even Thor's "What are you the god of again" Hela strike can come into play.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes, I believe it's clear that Thanos' sword > Cap's shield. That, however, doesn't mean it's tougher than Mjolnir. Remember that Thor only ever hit Cap's shield once with full intent, and that he struck it right at the center where the shield is toughest. Thanos hacked at the edge of the shield, not the center, and he only managed to damage it after repeated blows.There's also the fact that Thor isn't physically as strong as Thanos, and that also needs to be considered.
And again, breaking a sword blade is much easier than breaking a hammer's head, presuming both are made with the same metal, with the same tempering, with the same level of craftmanship. Breaking a sword blade doesn't mean you can just as easily break a hammer head.
You contradict yourself with the first and last paragraphs. If a sword is so much easier to break, which I agree with, then that means Thanos' sword is that much more durable than Captain America's shield. The same shield Mjolnir, wielded by an enraged Thor, couldn't even dent. And while it's true that Thanos is physically more powerful than Thor, he doesn't have Thor's lightning and his sword doesn't have Mjolnir's enchantments. There's no argument that can really be made in favor of Mjolnir here. It just doesn't have the feats.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, she did let Thanos initially get close during their fight. Granted, she did push him back and disarm him eventually, but he was pretty much within touching distance of her at one point. And at that range, even Thor's "What are you the god of again" Hela strike can come into play.
Even if we assume that the characters will use all their power from the get go, Wanda would just finish Ragnarok Thor before he gets close.
If we assume that the attacks powers will progress along with the fight, then Thor isn't going for an all-out lightning like the one that demolished Odin's Keep as soon as he gets into close range. And still, Wanda could just finish up the fight in close quartes by mind raping Thor, so...
Odinson is still at a disadvantage.
Originally posted by Psychotron
You contradict yourself with the first and last paragraphs. If a sword is so much easier to break, which I agree with, then that means Thanos' sword is that much more durable than Captain America's shield. The same shield Mjolnir, wielded by an enraged Thor, couldn't even dent. And while it's true that Thanos is physically more powerful than Thor, he doesn't have Thor's lightning and his sword doesn't have Mjolnir's enchantments. There's no argument that can really be made in favor of Mjolnir here. It just doesn't have the feats.
And yet you seem to be conveniently ignoring the main points of my argument. So let me repeat them for you:
1. Thanos only damaged Cap's shield after repeated strikes of his sword, whereas Thor only ever fully struck Cap's shield once.
2. Thanos' earlier strikes left no dent on Cap's shield, not even a scratch.
3. Thanos' cracked Cap's shield by striking it at its edge. The one time Thor attacked that shield he hit it at the center. Hint: The edge is the weakest part of the shield.
If you really want to prove that Thanos' sword is stronger than Thor, you need to prove that it can damage Cap's shield via a single hit to the center.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Even if we assume that the characters will use all their power from the get go, Wanda would just finish Ragnarok Thor before he gets close.If we assume that the attacks powers will progress along with the fight, then Thor isn't going for an all-out lightning like the one that demolished Odin's Keep as soon as he gets into close range. And still, Wanda could just finish up the fight in close quartes by mind raping Thor, so...
Odinson is still at a disadvantage.
I'm curious why you think Thor's lightning is limited to short range? What, you think lightning that's strong enough to pulverize undead Asgardians are just going to sizzle out after more than a few meters?
Originally posted by FrothByte
And yet you seem to be conveniently ignoring the main points of my argument. So let me repeat them for you:1. Thanos only damaged Cap's shield after repeated strikes of his sword, whereas Thor only ever fully struck Cap's shield once.
2. Thanos' earlier strikes left no dent on Cap's shield, not even a scratch.
3. Thanos' cracked Cap's shield by striking it at its edge. The one time Thor attacked that shield he hit it at the center. Hint: The edge is the weakest part of the shield.
If you really want to prove that Thanos' sword is stronger than Thor, you need to prove that it can damage Cap's shield via a single hit to the center.
Alright, I just rewatched the scene.
Thanos didn't get a clean strike on the shield until he punched Mjolnir out of Steve's hand. That first clean strike broke the shield.
There were no earlier attacks, just a couple of one-handed glancing blows.
Considering a fully charged lightning strike from an enraged Thor couldn't dent the shield I don't think an edge shot would have done much either. Mjolnir is a blunt weapon and it wouldn't break apart a shield no matter where you strike with it. Also, in real life a sword woud break striking the edge of a metal shield, so if anything this just makes Thanos' sword look much more durable.
No, I don't. You kneed to prove that Mjolnir can damage the shield at all.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm curious why you think Thor's lightning is limited to short range? What, you think lightning that's strong enough to pulverize undead Asgardians are just going to sizzle out after more than a few meters?
Dead Asgardians which were getting killed by the Executor using machine guns. Wanda's shields have withstood bullets before.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Dead Asgardians which were getting killed by the Executor using machine guns. Wanda's shields have withstood bullets before.
That still doesn't prove that Thor's lightning is short-ranged. There's also the fact that Wanda has trouble shielding herself while using her TK to attack, as was already proven when she was trying to crush Thanos.
So if your theory is she can use the same attack on Thor, then she's open to getting zapped by lightning.
Originally posted by FrothByte
That still doesn't prove that Thor's lightning is short-ranged. There's also the fact that Wanda has trouble shielding herself while using her TK to attack, as was already proven when she was trying to crush Thanos.So if your theory is she can use the same attack on Thor, then she's open to getting zapped by lightning.
Such lightning were only used in that particular scene at close range.
I never said that Thor can't cast normal lightning at long distances.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Such lightning were only used in that particular scene at close range.I never said that Thor can't cast normal lightning at long distances.
Define "close range". Because those lightning blasts seemed to be extending 10-15 meters away from Thor at some points. If that's your idea of close range then Wanda's powers are also close range. I certainly don't recall her being too far away from Thanos when she did her TK crush.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Either way, if Wanda can break the sword she can break Mjolnir.
Probably true but:
1) He can throw Mjolnir or StormBreaker at his opponent. In the case of the latter it overpowered a blast from a full infinity gauntlet.
2) Even if she crushes Mjolnir or SB, he can still fire lightning.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Probably true but:1) He can throw Mjolnir or StormBreaker at his opponent. In the case of the latter it overpowered a blast from a full infinity gauntlet.
2) Even if she crushes Mjolnir or SB, he can still fire lightning.
I already said he wins via lightning spam. I'm only saying Wanda's tk is strong enough to break Mjolnir.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Alright, I just rewatched the scene.Thanos didn't get a clean strike on the shield until he punched Mjolnir out of Steve's hand. That first clean strike broke the shield.
There were no earlier attacks, just a couple of one-handed glancing blows.
Considering a fully charged lightning strike from an enraged Thor couldn't dent the shield I don't think an edge shot would have done much either. Mjolnir is a blunt weapon and it wouldn't break apart a shield no matter where you strike with it. Also, in real life a sword woud break striking the edge of a metal shield, so if anything this just makes Thanos' sword look much more durable.
No, I don't. You kneed to prove that Mjolnir can damage the shield at all.
Thanos hits Cap's shield 4 different times before the shield breaks. Now I agree some of them were glancing hits, but one of them hit somewhere near the middle of Cap's shield strong enough to send Cap flying back. And guess what? No dent on the shield. Not even a scratch.
Also, if you don't think it's easier for a hammer to dent the edge of a shield than it is to dents its center then you really need to get a hold of a shield at some point and check it out. The edges of a shield are normally the first parts to get damaged.
There's also the fact that Thor wields Mjolnir one-handed whereas the strikes that Thanos used to break the shield were delivered two handed.