Darth Maul vs Obi Wan Kenobi (see details)

Started by Darth Thor4 pages
Originally posted by YousufKhan1212

This sounds like conjecture tbh because Obi-Wan likely would've accepted Satine's death, given that he's holistically portrayed as the quintessential Jedi. In fact, I think there's a source saying Obi-Wan would have the psychological advantage over Maul. there's an actual source alluding to that.

His turmoil over that event is specifically mentioned in Son of Dathomir. So not conjecture.

He also takes his ROTS Battle stance against Maul in SOD (see Witwers YouTube commentary of the Twin Suns fight to get the relevance of that).

Also note how in the episode Revenge, Maul won that fight by triggering Obi over Qui-Gons death which took place like 10+ years earlier.

Kenobi is the Quintessential Jedi, I agree. But hes still human. It might take some mental clarity and emotional growth for him to be over that to the extent where Maul cant use it against him, at all.

Was Obi wans force abilities and feats more powerful than Darth Mauls?

Maul was clearly superior to Kenobi in season 5 of TCW. But Ben Kenobi>Maul

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Maul was clearly superior to Kenobi in season 5 of TCW. But Ben Kenobi>Maul

yeah true in most of the cartoon scenes Darth Maul seems to be getting the upper hand or seems slightly better then Obi hence overpowering him a little , to me the way i interpret the last battle when obi wan defeats Maul : Maul lost due to his arrogance , hatred and lack of wisdom etc and made a silly mistake like aniken did to Obi etc ..

Originally posted by ozz81
to me the way i interpret the last battle when obi wan defeats Maul : Maul lost due to his arrogance , hatred and lack of wisdom etc and made a silly mistake like aniken did to Obi etc ..

If youre referring to their Rebels fight, then it was more than just Mauls mental weaknesses.

According to Witwer he was in shock at just how fast Kenobi cut him down. And from that deduced this must be the most important Jedi station in the Galaxy.

So it seems Kenobi was simply faster than Maul, likely due to being more powerful.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
If youre referring to their Rebels fight, then it was more than just Mauls mental weaknesses.

According to Witwer he was in shock at just how fast Kenobi cut him down. And from that deduced this must be the most important Jedi station in the Galaxy.

So it seems Kenobi was simply faster than Maul, likely due to being more powerful.

cool or Maul was at shock not because of Obis speed but the fact that he cut thru his saber and overcame/didnt fall for his trap etc?
Didnt Obi wan trick Maul from the start as he did Qui Gons stance etc sort of enticed or ensnared Maul to do that trick on him but failed etc..

Originally posted by ozz81
cool or Maul was at shock not because of Obis speed but the fact that he cut thru his saber and overcame/didnt fall for his trap etc?
Didnt Obi wan trick Maul from the start as he did Qui Gons stance etc sort of enticed or ensnared Maul to do that trick on him but failed etc..

Thats all true. And Kenobi took advantage of Mauls desperation for revenge on him, and how Maul never moves on from the fight on Naboo.

But Maul himself realised how badly he underestimated Ben Kenobi. And that was down to the speed at which he executed that final move.

But when we add Kenobis speed to him taking advantage of Mauls broken mind, then the result was Kenobi basically blitzing Maul.

Still, given Kenobis speed, he would have won either way, whether it took 3 moves or 3 minutes, because Ultimately (as confirmed by Filoni), Maul was not his equal by this point in time. And thats pretty non debatable tbh.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Thats all true. And Kenobi took advantage of Mauls desperation for revenge on him, and how Maul never moves on from the fight on Naboo.

But Maul himself realised how badly he underestimated Ben Kenobi. And that was down to the speed at which he executed that final move.

But when we add Kenobis speed to him taking advantage of Mauls broken mind, then the result was Kenobi basically blitzing Maul.

Still, given Kenobis speed, he would have won either way, whether it took 3 moves or 3 minutes, because Ultimately (as confirmed by Filoni), Maul was not his equal by this point in time. And thats pretty non debatable tbh.

Awesome ! Sorry wasn’t sure what happened to obi wan when darth maul executed Satine In front of him ? Did they have another duel or did obi wan escape ?

Originally posted by ozz81
Awesome ! Sorry wasn’t sure what happened to obi wan when darth maul executed Satine In front of him ? Did they have another duel or did obi wan escape ?

No, never duelled after that until Rebels. They came face to face in Son of Dathomir, but never fought.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
His turmoil over that event is specifically mentioned in Son of Dathomir. So not conjecture.

I forgot about that, but Obi-Wan did say that he had control over his turmoil, and knowing what kind of person he is, I would take his word for it because it's within Obi-Wan's nature to learn from his mistakes.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He also takes his ROTS Battle stance against Maul in SOD (see Witwers YouTube commentary of the Twin Suns fight to get the relevance of that).

If the commentary is the one I think you're referring to, it was similiar to this written one written on an interview:

Sam Witwer: That wonderful moment when Maul sparks up his lightsaber and Obi Wan immediately picks up his and goes into the Ewan McGregor pose … he’s almost about to commit the same mistakes that he made in the Clone Wars, the guy who engages in violence. Yes, it was in self-defense, but he was a General in a war, and that was not what he was supposed to be doing as a General. He goes into the Ewan McGregor pose, almost not having learned a lesson, and he gives it a moment, takes a breath, and then goes into the Alec Guinness pose, which is a man who was not interested in fighting. He was interested in ending the conflict, he was not interested in fighting.

Source -- ‘Star Wars Rebels’ Sam Witwer on Playing Darth Maul, Seeing ‘Star Wars’ Done Right

Sounds more like he's talking about Obi-Wan's character development from the character that we see in the prequel trilogy and the character that we see in the original trilogy, than Obi-Wan's combat improvement, because a 55 year old Ben Kenobi shouldn't be participating in violence and warfare when he's already seen first hand the kind of atrocities that stems from fighting.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Also note how in the episode Revenge, Maul won that fight by triggering Obi over Qui-Gons death which took place like 10+ years earlier.

That was the first time Maul had used Dun Moch on Obi-Wan though.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Kenobi is the Quintessential Jedi, I agree. But hes still human. It might take some mental clarity and emotional growth for him to be over that to the extent where Maul cant use it against him, at all.

I think it's safe to say that he did come to terms with it when he met Maul again before SoD because SoD suggests that he was revisiting his memory of Maul murdering Satine because Tiplee (or was it Aayla) said that she sensed his turmoil.

As for my argument for Obi-Wan having a psychological advantage over Maul, here it is:

Kenobi has a pre-existing intimiate relationship with Maul that no other Star Wars character has, largely because he has fought Maul a few times, has had the privilege of having lots of time with Maul in face to face conversations and listening to Maul's obsessive hatred for Kenobi, giving Kenobi the crucial information regarding Maul's psychology to understand him. He's also had plenty of time processing his intimate knowledge of Maul's psychology to know how to exploit Maul's psychological shortcoming i.e. that he's blinded by his need for revenge towards Kenobi for changing the course of his life. He understands Maul's psychological shortcoming is that he is blinded by hatred and revenge, hence why he calls Maul "broken, unbalanced monster," which is reinforced by a TCW magazine saying that one of Maul's shortcomings is that he is blinded by his need for revenge:

"Blinded by vengeance (especially against Obi-Wan Kenobi, who cut him in half at the Battle of Naboo - while Maul was busy taunting the apparently trapped Kenobi)." -- Star Wars: The Clone Wars Magazine Issue #13.

This shortcoming is unique to Maul's relationship with Obi-Wan, and it completely goes against Maul's training as Sidious once said to him:

Darth Sidious: Remember that your anger is a tool. It is not your master.

Source -- Star Wars: Age of Republic - Darth Maul.

It makes sense that Sidious is warning Maul to not allow anger to be his master because as a Juyo practitioner, Maul is meant have master control over his anger to fight effectively, Darth Bane also remarks that Juyo is about the mastery of control, not the loss of it:

“Juyo is based on quick strikes and unpredictable attacks, but you are not fully embracing the style unless your emotions ignite your senses and elevate your abilities. But do not succumb completely to you emotions. You are a Sith Lord, not an animal. As you take aim and fight through the tunnel of rage, you will experience transcendence. In that moment, you are a perfect being and you cannot be beaten - you are at last embraced within Juyo. Juyo is the mastery of control, not the loss of it.” -- Book of Sith.

Maul being "being blinded by vengeance (especially against Obi-Wan Kenobi...)" would poison his focus and diminish his control over his anger while fighting Kenobi, which makes some sense because Maul is filled with obsessive hatred for Kenobi for robbing him of his legs and destiny of becoming so much more, that all obsessive hatred would just blind him like the broken, unbalanced monster that Kenobi mused that he is.

Will respond to this later.