Originally posted by juggernaut74
Good fighters make adjustments so quit making fairy tales.
Not every good fighter can whist their fighting styles to every environment in SW, especially ones who use Juyo, which is Maul's primary form, because no one is invincible. You've just been appealing to your own personal incredulity for this entire conversation.
Originally posted by YousufKhan1212You're basing the fact that Savage and Maul weren't do so well against Kenobi on hopes and dreams and fairy tales. Basically you making stuff up to fit what you wanted to happen.
Not every good fighter can whist their fighting styles to every environment in SW, especially ones who use Juyo, which is Maul's primary form, because no one is invincible. You've just been appealing to your own personal incredulity for this entire conversation.
You're claiming they were fighting in too close of quarters but in fact both fights were in close quarters and as I said previously in the first fight the space was so limited their sabers were cutting the walls around them which in fact was closer than when they were fighting in the cave. 😆
A skilled fighter worth a damm has the ability to adjust their style if need be.
Moral of the story? Stop making sh!t up and expect people to have to accept it, if you want that's fine.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
You're basing the fact that Savage and Maul weren't do so well against Kenobi on hopes and dreams and fairy tales. Basically you making stuff up to fit what you wanted to happen.
I'm not making anything thing up, I honestly find it incredibly ironic that you're handwaving my arguments as "hopes and dreams and fairy tales" and that I am "making stuff up to fit" what I wanted to happen, and yet you're the one who is gloating, being incredulous, high and mighty whilst not actually offering a proper rebuttal. I'm basing it on logical inference and I also have an LFL source backing me up:
"The two Sith maneuvered to pin Obi-Wan against the wall -- but there was so little room in the corridor that they got in each other's way." -- Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy.
Granted, this quote is a bit simplified, but it is still correct in priniciple i.e. the environment is a disadvantage for Maul and Savage, and it's an LFL source that still fundamentally backs up my argument in that Maul and Savage's movements were limited the cave. An official Lucasfilm licensed source >>>> your personal incredility. Keep in mind that the quote itself puts emphasis on Maul and Savage being at the disadvantage rather than Kenobi. Even when watching the actual Episode itself, Maul and Savage it's really obvious Maul and Savage were weakened by the environment Because Kenobi specifically chose that environment, at first he's literally running away from them, but stops around the corner of the end to fight them there:
This is typical of Kenobi because he is a tactical mastermind who's an expert with the use of tactical ingenuity and using the environment to gain a tactical advantage in the form of Sokan.
similar to Obi-Wan's victory over Anakin on Mustafar, where he used the environment to gain a tactical advantage against Anakin who was consumed by uncontrolled rage i.e. the high ground. He's also used it against Ventress in a Clone Wars Comic, saying:
Obi-Wan Kenobi: A fight is never a goal in itself. Sometimes it is simply a distraction -- from the true goal -- and best countered with a larger distraction.
Sokan is all about using the environment to gain a tactical advantage. He specifically chose the environment to fight Maul and Savage, which inferably and explicitly stated to have been a disadvantage for them, note that Maul and Savage are much taller, wider and larger combatants than Obi-Wan. In fact when looking closely at Maul's size, he's actually taller than Savage Opress (who is an absolute juggarnaut in size) because of his long Cybernetic legs, whereas Obi-Wan is shorter and and slimmer in size than both Maul and Savage. Obi-Wan was still able to perform several acrobatic movements nand leaps whilst using two lightsabers, whereas all what Savage is able to do is leap back ONCE, and Maul doesn't, which is very telling of how restrictive the environment is for them because keep in mind that Maul is a very energetic and fast paced duelist who is notorious for being acrobatic, in many ways embodying the prequel trilogy era of lightsaber combat, and he doesn't perform a single acrobatic movement in this fight. Moreover, Maul's main form, Juyo, is a kinetic fighting style:
"Form VII employs bold, direct movements, more open and kinetic than Form V, but so eleborate in appearance as the acrobatic Form VII. Unlike Form V, Form VII requires greater energy because the focus is wielded more broadly, and draws upon a deeper well of emotion; while the outward bearing of a Form VII practitionor is one of calm, the inner pressure verges on explosion." -- Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force.
Form VII, which is what Maul uses, is open and kinetic, meaning that it is involves and produces a lot of movements, it's not suitable for narrow environments. Here in this fight, he has little-to-no room for maneuverability, especially due to his clunky cybernetic legs.
As for Savage, let's not forget that he's a saberstaff wielder, the saberstaff itself involves a lot wide movement arcs to be utilized most effectively. Next:
You're claiming they were fighting in too close of quarters but in fact both fights were in close quarters and as I said previously in the first fight the space was so limited their sabers were cutting the walls around them which in fact was closer than when they were fighting in the cave. laughing
No, I never said they were fighting in too close quarters, I said that they were fighting in an a cave, an environment that limited Maul and Savage's movements, which is reinforced by an official lucasfilm licensed source. Show me where Maul and Obi-Wan's lightsabers were cutting walls around them in their 1v1 in that Revival episode.
A skilled fighter worth a damm has the ability to adjust their style if need be.
Bro, a skilled fighter can try adjusting their fighting style to a narrow environment, but said narrow environment will still give them less options, for example, even senate pods were a disadvantage for even guys Yoda and Sidious:
"As the podium rose into the Senate arena, the fight intensified. Twice, Yoda came near to pushing Palpatine over the edge. They were high enough now that a fall could be fatal, even to a Sith Lord. Or a Jedi Master. The cramped space within the pod left little room for maneuvering." -- Revenge of the SIth Junior Novel.
They fought on senate pods that provided little room for maneuvering, note that the text doesn't impose any limitations to Yoda and Sidious, rather than one of them, so it was a problem for both of them. The senate pods were so cramped that it restricted their movements, so they have less options. If I fight in an environment that gives little room for me to maneuver, then I have less options regardless of how well i adjust my tactics, because on open and wide ground, I can use tactics that kinetic.
Moral of the story? Stop making sh!t up and expect people to have to accept it, if you want that's fine.
There is no moral of the story, I'm not making any shit up and I'm getting fed up of you patronising me. If you still don't believe me, then we'll just have to agree to disagree, how about that?
Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
10/10 rebuttal 👏
But if you want t use that script, you should remember that, the script has kenobi having an upperhand on maul in their 1v1, and has him breaking both kenobi and oppress's telekinetic defense simulteously.
However you cut it, the dude who survived anakin is a better fighter than the one who got ran out of his palace by ahsoka.