Heres the very formal definition of "Faith", which BTW is described as a noun in the dictionary:
* Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, an idea, or a thing.
* Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at trust.
* Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
* Often Faith. Theology. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
* The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
A set of principles or beliefs.
When Lucas was thinking up Star Wars he said he was looking for a common base for all religions, which led him to "The Force" theory.
I'll lay good odds that these people are trivialising religion. The definition of religion has been badly expanded lately; just because you like something a lot doesn't mean it qualfies for that status. The logical extension of such thought is disastrous- just about anything you enjoy could be termed religious worship.
The whole point of defining something as a religion is to distinguish it. If you can make a religion out of anything you like, then we'd just need a new word to define the 'real' religions, and then we'd start all over again.
Which basically means a good talk/debate about religion. Ush, you did not get scientific with me at all. I applaude you, you have taken this thread to the level of a good debate about religion. Far too few on SW boards if you ask me. And about your general statements on faith and religion I follow you very much. As for the source of faith, I think it must come from man itself, although I do believe it can be stimulated from the outside by things like confirmation.
Yes, but then your talking about a single religion there. Who's to say you're even praying to or praising the right god in the first place. This is my whole issue with religion. I respect to rights of all individuals to worship whom they so choose, but in return I expect, nay demand, the right to hold true to my own faith in a greater purpose and to not have any on god pushed in my face.
Now I know no one here is doing that, I am aware that we have representation from a few different religious aspects, mine is just another.
I really do hate it though when the local church or the Jehovahs Witnesses come knocking on the door. What gives them the right to try and push their beliefs on me?
This post is all rather emotive and, unlike Ushgarak, I can not bring any facts to the party because I simply don't have them. Once again, this represents my thinking in not having any religious leaning. It's not that I don't understand, I have looked at the christian faith and a few others as well, but none of them hold enough of anything tangible to allow me to give my faith to them.
Fair enough. It's a very tricky issue. I think I'd better state that I'm NOT a Christian, nor do I disapprove of it. I WA a member of my school's Christian Union, though, becuase it was a great place for discussion. Being sadly adolescent at the time, though, I spent too much time mocking. Religious-wise, I got a rather more mature view on the whole thing in the sixth-form.
That's great. One of the most depressing things I see is when the anti-religious people present arguments that are just as blinkered and ill-informed as the religious zealots they criticise... and a lot of people they criticise aren'tactaully over-zealous people at all.People always over judge from a vocal minority, so if some religious nutters exist some people always assume that therefore ALL relgiious people are nutty.
I agree with having respect for people, religion and religious people. But such arguments as given by RC make it virtually impossible to talk about religion at all. Because if you'd like to explain something from a certain religion one likes to adhere to, it might be considered "pushed into someone's face". So how does one proceed on these matters? I think by ways of debate, LISTEN to what one has to say.
But so few can actually do this, due to fanaticism or total rejection of religion and religious people. As if every religious person WERE a pushy Jehova's Witness. At least debating/talking would work on boards like this. But I know it's problems as well. After all, it is not for nothing that TF.N for instance has a ban on religious topics if not strictly related to SW. I have some great debates and some really awful ones on the topic. And this one is still lingering. I am still indoubt on talking about it here. With Ush I do not see a problem, but RC has already made his stance clear: don't push anything in my face. So if someone IS religious, it means he should shut up about it, even though that might be the most important thing he believes in and holds dear to.
The same goes if you like talking about it. When it comes down to religion it seems you can't really take a stand. About SW one can say: "look, you're wrong, Sidious IS Palpy." Or "Anakin MUST kil Mace", "Ep2 will suck is GL does not shape up".
When you say something like that when it comes to religious terms, you're out of line. I think that is strange.
I agree with having respect for people, religion and religious people. But such arguments as given by RC make it virtually impossible to talk about religion at all.
What I meant, and I think you knew this really, was that when I'm sitting it the privacy of my own house I do not need, nor want, some joker knocking on my front door trying to talk religion at me. As far as I am concerned it's just the same as someone trying to sell me double glazing on my doorstep. If you read my post fully, that is exactly what I said...
I really do hate it though when the local church or the Jehovahs Witnesses come knocking on the door. What gives them the right to try and push their beliefs on me?
I have nothing against religion and I respect those who have the conviction of faith to live there lives, to whatever degree, by some form of religious belief. I do not have that ability in my soul. If that offends anyone of religious conviction then I am sorry but that is who I am and at the end of the day you need to be true to yourself above all other principles.
Queeq, you have TOTALLY misrepresented my post, choosing to ignore the facts and pick up badly on just a few of the points that I made. I don't appologise for my lack of religious faith, and as I sated i would ALWAYS defend the rights of anyone to maintain their religious beliefs.
I would ALWAYS fight to defend anyones religious beliefs, just as much as I would fight not to have them pushed on me.
Queeq, I would very much suggest that you go back and read my posts fully, and then give SERIOUS consideration to appologising for you comments against me. It is this over-zealous kind of attitude that I do compare to the Jehovahs Witness that knocks on my door.
You appear, though I may be mistaken, to believe that I have totally abandoned any concept or wish to understand religion. This is a falsehood. I read the bible, I attend church a number of times a yeah, I also take a passing interest in other religious beliefs, I watch the religious channels on the TV, I listen to morning worships on the radio. Yet I still find myself unable to devote my faith to these concepts. Ins't that my right as much as it is yours to be a Christian or any other individual to worship their particular religious symbol?
Sorry to appear to rant, but I will not be misrepresented in my faith or beliefs.
Whoa! Sixth-form flashback! It;s a tricky subject alright. But we're all friends here, that's the important bit.
Religious tv is an illustration of religions'problem witbn popular culture. Correction- western religion.
As far as anyone having a right to worship what they like... that';s technically true, ut as I have said before, I am very uncomfortable with people thinking they can turn anything they like into a religion. The whole point is being missed.
Oh, that's true. This whole NZ think kinda demonstrates this. Religion, and the right to express it, can not be treated as a joke.
I wasn't trying to be unfriendly, but my point was that it's easy for someone to be judgemental of another, even when the facts are laid before one. queeq appears to have failed to read correctly what I had said, then made judgements on me based on 2 or three lines out of 50 or so...
Sorry queeq, but it's true.
Sorry RC, if I offended you. I didn't mean to do so if I did. I didn't mean to get so personal. Consider my remarks more general in exploring what people say about religion, faith and beliefs. I listen and respond. However, I do not think your arguments on religion and faith are very strong. I'm not saying anything about your personal beliefs or religion. Take it were you think it's right. But seeing how strongly you respond to my remarks, I doubt that a debate is possible. But let's try it. Once again, nothing personal, just responding to what you said. For instance, you said:
"I have faith that somewhere out there in the universe there is a higher purpose, a greater being. However, I have no idea what it may be, or how it mnay represent itself."
You say this excuses you for following any religion. I agree with you. But I do wonder if one could call this faith, other than faith in oneself. How can one believe in something if one doesn't know what it is, what consequences if may have for one's life or actions. It is merely a thought about the existence of a higher inspiration, not the search for it, least of all a way of surrendering to that source inspiration. Christians, Muslim, Hindu's, Boeddhists etc. have a faith in how the world works and what place man has in that world. They live according to teachings that were inspired, and these teachings give meaning to life.
In that sense these "Jedi" believers have a little more to go on. They might believe there is a life giving Force and that one should lead a life without hate, anger, fear etc. Because if not, then you would fall to the dark side which would then consume you and dominate your destiny forever. Unfortunately, this is ALL they have.
I have seen that religion has been cast out of our Western society in the last 40 years. But what have we received in return. This so-called tolerance? Isn't that closer to indifference (don't bother me and I won't bother you)? GL said he wants SW (among others) to trigger young people to think about God and higher inspiration. I think this is one of SW's great assets, personally that is. IMHO, in my personal view etc etc.