Originally posted by Robtard
We'd have more cases and more deaths if so. There's no immunization like we have with the Flu.
According to actual epidemiologists, we'd have fewer deaths if we never did the lockdowns and shelter in place policies. This is part of why you see frustrated epidemiologists popping up on the news and interviews: frustrated with the incorrect handling* over SARS-CoV-2 by the CDC, Fauci, Brix, and the WHO.
*That's probably a poor term. More like the advice. The handling is up to the President, Governors, and Mayors.
Originally posted by Robtard
-Vaccines are not "miracles", they come through the wonders of science. Save the miracles for religion; what a bunch of hooey, that.-Vaccines are not mandatory. eg every year we have millions of retards in the US who do not get the influenza vaccine because they fear it will turn them autistic and/or poison them
-Vaccines lower the rate of infection and thereby the total number of potential deaths
Good post. I disagree that vaccines are not miracles. They are miracles. Unless you're talking about the "God-miracle" stuff.
Originally posted by Robtard
TBF, Cuomo could have reacted a bit quicker which would have put NY in a better position, so he's not completely free of blame regarding the pandemic in NY. He shouldn't have listened to Trump's lies, downplaying, gaslighting and spinning at all concerning covid-19.Trump squandered two+ months of valuable preparation time for the whole country.
Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie... why you lie so damn much, rob? Trump didn't squander valuable time. When he was trying to restrict travel from China leftist retards like you were calling him racist and xenophobic for it.
Around that same time the lying media was saying that this new virus was no more dangerous than the common flu. Trump simply repeats what he heard them say and they lose their shit and accuse him of downplaying it.
FFS, crazy Pelosi was telling people to go to Chinatown and eat in restaurants there to prove they aren't racist lol. Some government official in NY was telling people not to be afraid to ride the subway and to make sure they came to the parade that was going on there at the time. Is that not irresponsible? Or was that somehow Trump's fault as well? 😂
And let's not forget how our great president was distracted by the dems' BS crybaby impeachment shenanigans which caused him to be much less focused on the threat.
Originally posted by dadudemonGood post. I disagree that vaccines are not miracles. They are miracles. Unless you're talking about the "God-miracle" stuff.
I'm using the definition: "a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency."
But sure, the can be considered "miracles" in another sense.
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie... why you lie so damn much, rob? Trump didn't squander valuable time. When he was trying to restrict travel from China leftist retards like you were calling him racist and xenophobic for it.Around that same time the lying media was saying that this new virus was no more dangerous than the common flu. Trump simply repeats what he heard them say and they lose their shit and accuse him of downplaying it.
FFS, crazy Pelosi was telling people to go to Chinatown and eat in restaurants there to prove they aren't racist lol. Some government official in NY was telling people not to be afraid to ride the subway and to make sure they came to the parade that was going on there at the time. Is that not irresponsible? Or was that somehow Trump's fault as well? 😂
And let's not forget how our great president was distracted by the dems' BS crybaby impeachment shenanigans which caused him to be much less focused on the threat.
dur
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie... why you lie so damn much, rob? Trump didn't squander valuable time. When he was trying to restrict travel from China leftist retards like you were calling him racist and xenophobic for it.Around that same time the lying media was saying that this new virus was no more dangerous than the common flu. Trump simply repeats what he heard them say and they lose their shit and accuse him of downplaying it.
FFS, crazy Pelosi was telling people to go to Chinatown and eat in restaurants there to prove they aren't racist lol. Some government official in NY was telling people not to be afraid to ride the subway and to make sure they came to the parade that was going on there at the time. Is that not irresponsible? Or was that somehow Trump's fault as well? 😂
And let's not forget how our great president was distracted by the dems' BS crybaby impeachment shenanigans which caused him to be much less focused on the threat.
I think it is possible to believe all the arguments about this.
However, I'm of the position that unless you get extremely draconian with it right out of the gate, ALL travel restrictive measures are completely useless and this entire debate is partisan masturbation.
1. Trump doing early China-travel restrictions: useless.
2. The Left and the Dems hating Trump for his China-Travel restrictions: hypocritical, dangerous, and petty.
3. Any and all restrictions after the first COVID-19 cases were confirmed on US Soil? Too late. Let it run it's course. Protect the vulnerable and elderly. That's it. Anything else you do from a government perspective will cause more deaths.
So the entire argument is stupid to begin with. Both sides of this discussion are epic cancer. Throw them all out.
Ok, someone explain something to me because I’m not an expert here and I can’t seem to find articles that can prove or disprove my logic.
There is a campaign now against the wearing of gloves due to the possibility of cross contamination. So “experts” are recommending that we should instead not wear gloves and simply hand wash.
I have a bit of a problem with this because, well, why not just wash the gloves while you have them on? They pretty much get cleaned similar to your hands correct? They are easier to clean too as you don’t need to wash under nails and you are protected from getting contaminated in case you have sores or cuts on your hand. Plus washing seriously dries your hand and some of us become allergic to constant exposure to soap.
So yeah, why not just wash the gloves themselves while you have them on? Would be mechanically the same as washing your hands.
I read that washing MAY compromise the integrity of the gloves after long term use. But aren’t gloves designed against to be resistant to wet surfaces and soaps and such? I feel that washing them/disinfecting them with alcohol before taking them off and disposing them might also be a solid idea since it reduces the chance of you mishandling the gloves during removal and getting your hands contaminated.
Asked my wife and she doesn’t seem to have an answer on why other than it has been basic procedure to take off and throw away disposable gloves after every use. Not an expert on materials, but the logic of the anti-gloving bothers me a lot.
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnaedurdurdurdurdurdurdurdur
Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie... why you lie so damn much, rob? Trump didn't squander valuable time. When he was trying to restrict travel from China leftist retards like you were calling him racist and xenophobic for it.Around that same time the lying media was saying that this new virus was no more dangerous than the common flu. Trump simply repeats what he heard them say and they lose their shit and accuse him of downplaying it.
FFS, crazy Pelosi was telling people to go to Chinatown and eat in restaurants there to prove they aren't racist lol. Some government official in NY was telling people not to be afraid to ride the subway and to make sure they came to the parade that was going on there at the time. Is that not irresponsible? Or was that somehow Trump's fault as well? 😂
And let's not forget how our great president was distracted by the dems' BS crybaby impeachment shenanigans which caused him to be much less focused on the threat.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Ok, someone explain something to me because I’m not an expert here and I can’t seem to find articles that can prove or disprove my logic.There is a campaign now against the wearing of gloves due to the possibility of cross contamination. So “experts” are recommending that we should instead not wear gloves and simply hand wash.
I have a bit of a problem with this because, well, why not just wash the gloves while you have them on? They pretty much get cleaned similar to your hands correct? They are easier to clean too as you don’t need to wash under nails and you are protected from getting contaminated in case you have sores or cuts on your hand. Plus washing seriously dries your hand and some of us become allergic to constant exposure to soap.
So yeah, why not just wash the gloves themselves while you have them on? Would be mechanically the same as washing your hands.
I read that washing MAY compromise the integrity of the gloves after long term use. But aren’t gloves designed against to be resistant to wet surfaces and soaps and such? I feel that washing them/disinfecting them with alcohol before taking them off and disposing them might also be a solid idea since it reduces the chance of you mishandling the gloves during removal and getting your hands contaminated.
Asked my wife and she doesn’t seem to have an answer on why other than it has been basic procedure to take off and throw away disposable gloves after every use. Not an expert on materials, but the logic of the anti-gloving bothers me a lot.
My take on this is to stop being a cheap ass, wash your hands, and replace your gloves, often, if you have to wear them.
Also, there are different kinds of gloves. Some are not "sterile."
Originally posted by dadudemon
My take on this is to stop being a cheap ass, wash your hands, and replace your gloves, often, if you have to wear them.Also, there are different kinds of gloves. Some are not "sterile."
There is a “shortage” on gloves and ppl are discouraged in using them because they are said to be “reserved for healthcare workers”. Although, I’ll be honest, my cousin is a huge medical supplies distributor. He says he is actually pretty well stocked on gloves (unlike masks and other PPE). Personally, I also agree that one needs to change gloves whenever possible.
I think my problem is how people are discouraging the actual wearing of gloves and telling ppl that hand washing is better than glove wearing since gloves can cause cross contamination. With this logic, why not just wash the gloves themselves? Prevent cross contamination while still having an extra layer of protection. When you’re done, remove and dispose of the gloves properly and wash your hands.
Gloves need not be “sterile” tho. For me, it’s just to give my skin a rest from the constant mandated/recommended handwashing (my skin, dries easily and cracks when I wash too often sometimes even get tiny itchy rashes when I use certain soaps). Also, last time I went grocery shopping, I got a papercut from reaching for some diapers in the back of the shelf. In the context of the pandemic, I feel an extra layer of protection would have been very welcome that time.
Again, the logic of gloves = bad seems flawed to me.
I don't know about gloves specifically, but it sounds similar to the recommendations in regards to masks, which have now slowly changed all around the world.
Although I think one of the main benefits of masks is that they vastly decrease the chance of infecting someone else, I'm not sure whether gloves have any such benefits. As far as I know there is no evidence that coronavirus is spread by contact with the skin, in particularly the hands, so functionally a glove seems like it would be just more or less the same as having your bear hands.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
There is a “shortage” on gloves and ppl are discouraged in using them because they are said to be “reserved for healthcare workers”. Although, I’ll be honest, my cousin is a huge medical supplies distributor. He says he is actually pretty well stocked on gloves (unlike masks and other PPE). Personally, I also agree that one needs to change gloves whenever possible.I think my problem is how people are discouraging the actual wearing of gloves and telling ppl that hand washing is better than glove wearing since gloves can cause cross contamination. With this logic, why not just wash the gloves themselves? Prevent cross contamination while still having an extra layer of protection. When you’re done, remove and dispose of the gloves properly and wash your hands.
Gloves need not be “sterile” tho. For me, it’s just to give my skin a rest from the constant mandated/recommended handwashing (my skin, dries easily and cracks when I wash too often sometimes even get tiny itchy rashes when I use certain soaps). Also, last time I went grocery shopping, I got a papercut from reaching for some diapers in the back of the shelf. In the context of the pandemic, I feel an extra layer of protection would have been very welcome that time.
Again, the logic of gloves = bad seems flawed to me.
I didn't know that. There are tons of sterile gloves available on the internet and at my local walmarts. I guess it's more relaxed around here since no one is really dying around here.
Originally posted by Artol
I don't know about gloves specifically, but it sounds similar to the recommendations in regards to masks, which have now slowly changed all around the world.Although I think one of the main benefits of masks is that they vastly decrease the chance of infecting someone else, I'm not sure whether gloves have any such benefits. As far as I know there is no evidence that coronavirus is spread by contact with the skin, in particularly the hands, so functionally a glove seems like it would be just more or less the same as having your bear hands.
It’s an extra layer of protection. Some ppl have cuts/sores in their hands (I get them due to the constant hand washing and hand sanitizing I am now told to do due to having sensitive skin). Wearing gloves and washing THOSE while keeping them on has mechanically the same effect as washing my hands. Unless, of course, there is something about the gloves I am not aware of?
Originally posted by Nibedicus
It’s an extra layer of protection. Some ppl have cuts/sores in their hands (I get them due to the constant hand washing and hand sanitizing I am now told to do due to having sensitive skin). Wearing gloves and washing THOSE while keeping them on has mechanically the same effect as washing my hands. Unless, of course, there is something about the gloves I am not aware of?
Yeah, I get what you mean, I don't know anything about gloves really.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/disposable-gloves-washed-reused_l_5e8df7a7c5b61ada15c121ab
This article states four reasons why it is not a good idea to use gloves.
1. It gives you a false sense of security.
I find this one, same as when it is claimed for masks, to be complete nonsense, it's not based on evidence, and the opposite, namely that wearing gloves or masks will increase your alertness, is just as plausible, imo.
2. It is hard to make sure that gloves don't get contaminated.
That may be true, but it's likely equally true for hands. I don't view this as a very strong argument.
3. Washing disposable gloves compromises their integrity
I could imagine that that could lead to problems like germs and viruses being trapped and hard to remove.
4. It is easier to keep hands clean than gloves.
If that's true there is an argument to be made that using gloves is worse than not wearing them, as you would do the same precautions of hand washing, but if it is less effective it might leave more traces of infectious material.
I did some googling for a study, and it's not exactly the same as this issue, but this study on surgical gloves and washing them has shown that there are some issues with it, perhaps suggesting that the 2 latter points of the article are not wrong.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1348770
Microorganisms were isolated from the glove surfaces after 45% of the occasions on which the gloves were washed for 1 min in 'Hibiscrub' (ICI Dental). Eighty-five per cent of these isolates were environmental organisms, but oral streptococci were isolated from 8.4% of the pairs of gloves examined. The high rate of micropuncture development following repeated washing and re-use of latex gloves indicates that they cannot effectively perform their barrier function under such conditions.
Originally posted by Artol
Yeah, I get what you mean, I don't know anything about gloves really.https://www.huffpost.com/entry/disposable-gloves-washed-reused_l_5e8df7a7c5b61ada15c121ab
This article states four reasons why it is not a good idea to use gloves.
1. It gives you a false sense of security.
I find this one, same as when it is claimed for masks, to be complete nonsense, it's not based on evidence, and the opposite, namely that wearing gloves or masks will increase your alertness, is just as plausible, imo.
2. It is hard to make sure that gloves don't get contaminated.
That may be true, but it's likely equally true for hands. I don't view this as a very strong argument.
3. Washing disposable gloves compromises their integrity
I could imagine that that could lead to problems like germs and viruses being trapped and hard to remove.
4. It is easier to keep hands clean than gloves.
If that's true there is an argument to be made that using gloves is worse than not wearing them, as you would do the same precautions of hand washing, but if it is less effective it might leave more traces of infectious material.
I did some googling for a study, and it's not exactly the same as this issue, but this study on surgical gloves and washing them has shown that there are some issues with it, perhaps suggesting that the 2 latter points of the article are not wrong.
Yeah, saw that, too. Which is why I came here and posted. They seem to be making dumb arguments on why gloves shouldn’t be worn.
1) I agree with you. “False sense of security” is a dumb argument. Ppl misusing something does not make something bad. Instead, educate ppl on the proper use of gloves and the fact that they shouldn’t have a false sense of security because of it.
2) Also agree. The same argument can be made for hands. Washing gloves like you would your hands is mechanically identical with an extra layer of protection.
3) The same can be said for skin. Washing hands too often (especially for ppl with sensitive skin) can damage your skin. As bad as punctures in gloves are, punctures in skin are (I’m thinking) worse for keeping infections out.
And, as far as I know, the “damage” was only shown to happen (well at least the only test I found online anyway) IF you remove the gloves first then manually wash them. I sh!t you not. They literally had to take off the gloves (inside out method) then return it to its original shape THEN washed it rather than wash it while you have it on. IF you take off the gloves, then DUH it’ll get damaged. The removal process isn’t exactly gentle.
And gloves are flat surfaces, even if we say microtears form on the gloves, it won’t be sufficiently large enough to trap things worse than the grooves and cracks on our hands can, not to mention our fingernails. And I doubt major tears form on contact with soap and water, that’s just dumb. Gloves are meant to protect our hands from extended contact to damp/wet/toxic material. Soap and water damaging it would defeat their purpose.
The study you posted might fall under the same error. They might have washed the gloves and “re-used” them in a dental environment (where you hand sharp instruments and patient’s teeth). W/c in turn will damage and cause tears in the gloves. It also doesn’t specify how many times they wore, removed and re-used the gloves. I’d like to see the actual study and its methodology but it looks like I gotta pay to see it. 🙁
Anyway, my idea was to simply wear gloves when doing groceries. Then wash them when you have to go to another location or when you have to touch things like food/vegetables (the way you would when you shop with no gloves). The idea is just to use the gloves as a second layer of protection (and to reduce the damage on skin from constant hand washing) BUT to then dispose of it as soon as you are done with your day/errand.
The problem now is, ppl are just going “gloves bad” like they did with masks. This kind of poorly presented/explained logic is very frustrating to me.
Hand sanitizer is in short supply, and constant access to soap and water while out of the house isn't exactly viable. Contaminated gloves can be disposed of, your hands can not.
If these studies had any real merit, let's argue medical institutions should stop using masks and gloves. Or sandwhich makers should toss the gloves.
No, this is all propaganda to turn the public away from much needed medical supplies for hospital situations. Sorry, we need our gloves and masks for everyday living too, hospitals. Go argue with the manufacturers and businessmen who refuse to overproduce product and hurt their profit margins.