Originally posted by Robtard
Not sure what the wonder twins above are ranting about. But here's how It'd go:Round 1) Thanos punches DD to the point DD gets strong enough to tear Thanos in twain
Round 2) Thanos uses one or more of the stones to destroy DD
How do you think Round 1 will go if Thanos is given his sword?
Originally posted by FrothByte
Oh I never said Merriam Webster's definition was wrong, I'm saying you're wrong to think that force = strength = power = energy = mass*acceleration.Strawman much?
Fact is, you already agreed that a stronger person will have an easier time lifting a heavy weight for a prolonged duration than a weaker man would.
You also have yet to provide any proof at all that Hulk can match Superman's strength feat of lifting an entire building.
You also still don't know how the force behind a punch works.
You don't understand physics.
Please explain to me, in your logic, what's strength?
Go ahead.
Let's change things, prove Superman can move Surtur the same way Hulk did, which is 10x bigger than your building.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
You don't understand physics.Please explain to me, in your logic, what's strength?
Go ahead.
Let's change things, prove Superman can move Surtur the same way Hulk did, which is 10x bigger than your building.
I understand physics just fine. You don't understand logic nor it seems the english language.
I'm not going to bother proving Superman can move Surtur with a punch because I already said I don't think Superman can hit as hard as Hulk.
Now, are you going to bring proof that Hulk can actually lift that building or are you going to strawman some more?
Originally posted by FrothByte
I understand physics just fine. You don't understand logic nor it seems the english language.I'm not going to bother proving Superman can move Surtur with a punch because I already said I don't think Superman can hit as hard as Hulk.
Now, are you going to bring proof that Hulk can actually lift that building or are you going to strawman some more?
So, why won't you tell me what your definition of strength is? What is your physics definition of strength?
Answer the above question, then we continue with Surtur.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Please clarify what do you mean by /\? Honestly, by this point I've lost your original argument line.1. Momentum which was produced by his body. Ergo, strenght that was produced by Hulk.
2. LMAO! You mean half of Surtur's size, which is equivalent to what? 5x the size of the building Superman moved? Yeah sure, "very little force"!
3. Dude! Force = mass * acceleration. If the acceleration caused by the punch which made the object move back is superior to that of gravity then the force is greater than the one required to hold the object. If you look at how fast Surtur moved, I bet the force required to that is greater than the force required to hold it in your arms.
4. Then you have the fallacy of giving Superman the best feats against DD. If you lowball Hulk, then you have to lowball Superman.
5. We can speculate. Obviously Surtur's composition tougher than a human's.
If something can resist large amounts of blunt force without damage of any kind then it can resist being cut to a scaling degree. You argued against the converse of this argument (and not the argument itself)) by stating that a diamond can resist being cut but not blunt force.
1. The momentum was produced by Hulk's legs. Thanos legs are not as strong as Hulk's. Also, it seem Surtur could have flinched somewhat from the strike (Hulk didn't really make him move). The evidence supporting this is Hulk was still on top of Surtur's head after the strike. If Hulk struck him and made Surtur move then Hulk couldn't have stayed on him. Hulk would have hit Surtur him away from himself (punching an object away from oneself).
2. There is inconsistency with the scene. Hulk only appears to be a few times smaller than Surtur's head. Scaling from this and Surtur isn't as big as we think, unless you want to go with that particular scene being a lie.
3. I agree.
4. I'm not lowballing Hulk. Hulk doesn't operate at his highest feat level in every scene. This goes for any character in fiction. Writer's don't use exact physics when writing scenes. There are going to be great inconsistencies from scene to scene. But you are right. The same measure should be applied to Superman or any other character. I don't give anyone Superman's best strength feats just because they overpowered Superman. I would just say they are stronger than average Superman. I also judge DD's strength based off what he's done outside of Superman's feats. For example, how far and hard he hit Superman can be quantified as an approximate force.
5. tougher and denser are two different things. But it would be speculation as you said.
Originally posted by h1a8
If something can resist large amounts of blunt force without damage of any kind then it can resist being cut to a scaling degree. You argued against the converse of this argument (and not the argument itself)) by stating that a diamond can resist being cut but not blunt force.1. The momentum was produced by Hulk's legs. Thanos legs are not as strong as Hulk's. Also, it seem Surtur could have flinched somewhat from the strike (Hulk didn't really make him move). The evidence supporting this is Hulk was still on top of Surtur's head after the strike. If Hulk struck him and made Surtur move then Hulk couldn't have stayed on him. Hulk would have hit Surtur him away from himself (punching an object away from oneself).
2. There is inconsistency with the scene. Hulk only appears to be a few times smaller than Surtur's head. Scaling from this and Surtur isn't as big as we think, unless you want to go with that particular scene being a lie.
3. I agree.
4. I'm not lowballing Hulk. Hulk doesn't operate at his highest feat level in every scene. This goes for any character in fiction. Writer's don't use exact physics when writing scenes. There are going to be great inconsistencies from scene to scene. But you are right. The same measure should be applied to Superman or any other character. I don't give anyone Superman's best strength feats just because they overpowered Superman. I would just say they are stronger than average Superman. I also judge DD's strength based off what he's done outside of Superman's feats. For example, how far and hard he hit Superman can be quantified as an approximate force.
5. tougher and denser are two different things. But it would be speculation as you said.
Please clarify your understanding of "blunt force".
1. When you lift something vertically, you are applying force with your legs. So, Superman<<<<Hulk. You don't flinch to the point of almost falling by something the size of a fly, you are seriously lowballing now. Your physics is trully primary at best, please research the term inelastic collition.
2. A few times smaller? Hulk is nearly 10x smaller than Surtur's face! And Hulk is what? The size of an elephant? Now you are just lowballing.
3. Accepted.
4. Superman is the size of a normal man and just as heavy. DD sending him flying away after a punch is insignificant to Hulk punching Surtur away.
And Thanos hits harder than the Hulk, so, DD should be handled in the first minutes of the fight.
But I agree DD would eventually come on top.
5. Flesh isn't that dense. Surtur seems to be made of rock, so, i think it's pretty obvious.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
So, why won't you tell me what your definition of strength is? What is your physics definition of strength?Answer the above question, then we continue with Surtur.
What kind of strength? Compressive strength? Tensile strength? Characteristic strength?
There are many kinds of "strength" in physics but none of them is equal to just force. You can do a quick google search on the formulas for each and you'll easily realize your error.
Now, your turn. Give me a lifting feat from Hulk that matches Superman's building carry feat.
Originally posted by FrothByte
What kind of strength? Compressive strength? Tensile strength? Characteristic strength?There are many kinds of "strength" in physics but none of them is equal to just force. You can do a quick google search on the formulas for each and you'll easily realize your error.
Now, your turn. Give me a lifting feat from Hulk that matches Superman's building carry feat.
What is your definition of a man being strong?
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
What is your definition of a man being strong?
Sorry dude, you already asked your question and I answered. Now answer mine first then you can go ahead and ask another question AFTER you've answered my question.
So, does Hulk have any non-striking feats to match Superman lifting a building?
By the way, formula for tensile strength is force divided by cross section (s=P/a) if you're interested. Again, proof that force is clearly not equal to strength.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Sorry dude, you already asked your question and I answered. Now answer mine first then you can go ahead and ask another question AFTER you've answered my question.So, does Hulk have any non-striking feats to match Superman lifting a building?
By the way, formula for tensile strength is force divided by cross section (s=P/a) if you're interested. Again, proof that force is clearly not equal to strength.
No, you didn't answer my question, you avoided my question and brought scientific definitions akin to our debate.
You said that a man's "strength" isn't related to force (which is ridiculous). So, I'm asking: What's your definition of a man's strength? How do you determine man's strength?
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No, you didn't answer my question, you avoided my question and brought scientific definitions akin to our debate.You said that a man's "strength" isn't related to force (which is ridiculous). So, I'm asking: What's your definition of a man's strength? How do you determine man's strength?
Nope, you're changing the question. Your original question was this:
What is your physics definition of strength?
The most common "strength" mentioned in physics is tensile strength, and I already answered the definition for that which is s=P/a, where P is force and a is the cross section.
That already proves force is not equal to strength. I can list other examples of strength as defined in physics and I can guarantee you that none of them will be equal to force.
Now, stop moving goalposts and answer my question.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Nope, you're changing the question. Your original question was this:The most common "strength" mentioned in physics is tensile strength, and I already answered the definition for that which is s=P/a, where P is force and a is the cross section.
That already proves force is not equal to strength. I can list other examples of strength as defined in physics and I can guarantee you that none of them will be equal to force.
Now, stop moving goalposts and answer my question.
LMAO. Our debate is whether a man's physical strength is related to force. When I asked about your definition of strength, I meant under the given context. But you are just playing ignorance now.
So answer the question.
And lol at you admitting that Tensile "strength" is "force" devided by cross section. You just conceded.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
LMAO. Our debate is whether a man's physical strength is related to force. When I asked about your definition of strength, I meant under the given context. But you are just playing ignorance now.So answer the question.
And lol at you admitting that Tensile "strength" is "force" devided by cross section. You just conceded.
How did I concede by proving you wrong when you said force = strength?
I never said force isn't related to strength, I said you were wrong to say force = strength. In fact this is exactly what I said:
The main problem with your analogy is that force is not equal to strength.
So nice try on the strawman but that's not gonna fly.
Why can't you just be a man and admit that you were mistaken?
Originally posted by FrothByte
How did I concede by proving you wrong when you said force = strength?I never said force isn't related to strength, I said you were wrong to say force = strength. In fact this is exactly what I said:
So nice try on the strawman but that's not gonna fly.
Why can't you just be a man and admit that you were mistaken?
Will you answer the question, or will you keep avoiding? How do you describe a person's strength?
Stop changing the context. We aren't talking about tensile strength here, we are talking about Superman's strength in lifting a building.
And, yes, tensile strength is the force over a cross section. It's an aplication of force.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Will you answer the question, or will you keep avoiding? How do you describe a person's strength?Stop changing the context. We aren't talking about tensile strength here, we are talking about Superman's strength in lifting a building.
And, yes, tensile strength is the force over a cross section. It's an aplication of force.
I already answered your question, your question which asked for the physics definition of strength. Or are you going to deny that too?
Do you admit that, in physics anyway, force is not equal to strength?
Originally posted by FrothByte
I already answered your question, your question which asked for the physics definition of strength. Or are you going to deny that too?Do you admit that, in physics anyway, force is not equal to strength?
Dude, you are avoiding so utterly.
You claimed that Superman is stronger than Hulk, because he lift up a building. You said that strength isn't force, ergo, Superman lifting the building isn't Superman aplying force on the building to counteract the force of gravity.
So if Force isn't strength within your context, then what is strength.
Tensile strength has nothing to do with your original claim.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Please clarify your understanding of "blunt force".1. When you lift something vertically, you are applying force with your legs. So, Superman<<<<Hulk. You don't flinch to the point of almost falling by something the size of a fly, you are seriously lowballing now. Your physics is trully primary at best, please research the term inelastic collition.
2. A few times smaller? Hulk is nearly 10x smaller than Surtur's face! And Hulk is what? The size of an elephant? Now you are just lowballing.
3. Accepted.
4. Superman is the size of a normal man and just as heavy. DD sending him flying away after a punch is insignificant to Hulk punching Surtur away.
And Thanos hits harder than the Hulk, so, DD should be handled in the first minutes of the fight.
But I agree DD would eventually come on top.
5. Flesh isn't that dense. Surtur seems to be made of rock, so, i think it's pretty obvious.
1. You need back, arm, etc muscles to lift as well. Your legs don't do 100% of the lifting. But anyway, you ignored Thanos legs being weaker than Hulk. This thread is ultimately about him, not Hulk.
If the fly stings like a bee then you will flinch. So you are saying that Hulk's fists got caught inside Surtur head instead of hitting it away?
That's ridiculous.
2. If you look at the scene where Hulk strikes Surtur, you will see that Surtur's head is only a few times larger than Hulk's body. Was this a mistake in the art? Let me know and we will go further.
3. You are begging the question here. You are assuming what you are trying to prove. You can't compare Superman being hit a far distance to Surtur feat when the Surtur feat is still in question.
4. Why does Thanos hit harder than Hulk? What are his striking feats that are superior to Hulk's?
5. I never claimed flesh. It could be anything, from fire and ash to molten lava. We don't actually know. We can only speculate.
Originally posted by h1a8
Blunt force is the force that combines kinetic energy and momentum.
Getting stabbed by a sword is blunt force. We just call it cutting because we are relatively large in comparison to a the edge of a blade. But if we were to shrink to the size of the edge then it would appear to us that a huge wall is striking a surface (blunt force).1. You need back, arm, etc muscles to lift as well. Your legs don't do 100% of the lifting. But anyway, you ignored Thanos legs being weaker than Hulk. This thread is ultimately about him, not Hulk.
If the fly stings like a bee then you will flinch. So you are saying that Hulk's fists got caught inside Surtur head instead of hitting it away?
That's ridiculous.2. If you look at the scene where Hulk strikes Surtur, you will see that Surtur's head is only a few times larger than Hulk's body. Was this a mistake in the art? Let me know and we will go further.
3. You are begging the question here. You are assuming what you are trying to prove. You can't compare Superman being hit a far distance to Surtur feat when the Surtur feat is still in question.
4. Why does Thanos hit harder than Hulk? What are his striking feats that are superior to Hulk's?
5. I never claimed flesh. It could be anything, from fire and ash to molten lava. We don't actually know. We can only speculate.
Where did you got that definition from? Because, first of all, I can't seem to find the physics definition of "blunt force". What I've found is the medical definition of a trauma caused by a "blunt force" and it has nothing to do with penetration!
Blunt force trauma:
Blunt force trauma, also known as non-penetrative trauma ... This type of trauma can be defined as physical injury caused resulting from forceful impact of the body
According to this, "blunt force" has nothing to do with getting stabbed and more to do with being hammered.
So, I think your notion of the word is wrong.
1. Thanos legs are weaker than Hulk's? LMAO. Where did you got this from?
2. Dude, it's called "objects that are closer look bigger than objects that are further". Once Hulk lands on Surtur's crown, we can truly scale their sizes! Hulk is much smaller than Surtur's face!
3. You are the one making fallacious statements. The force required to move an object will not always be smaller than the one required to lift the same object. It all depends on the acceleration.
Again, you need to review your physics.
4. Because Thanos defeated Hulk in seconds, while the Hulkbuster didn't. The Hulkbuster is just as strong as the Hulk.
5. You can speculate on the real composition, but not on it being less dense than human fless.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
You said that strength isn't force, ergo, Superman lifting the building isn't Superman aplying force on the building to counteract the force of gravity.
Why do you feel the need to make stuff up? I already quoted exactly what I said, why are you even trying to misrepresent it. Here, let me quote myself again:
The main problem with your analogy is that force is not equal to strength.
Do I mention anywhere in there that Superman wasn't applying any force on the building or that strength has got nothing to do with force? No, I said force isn't equal to strength, which is what you were claiming.
I don't mind proceed on this debate with you but I'm not going to bother if you're going to be completely dishonest about it. That's H1 tactics.
Now, let me ask again so we can move forward. Do you at least agree that from a physics context, force is not equal to strength?
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Where did you got that definition from? Because, first of all, I can't seem to find the physics definition of "blunt force". What I've found is the medical definition of a trauma caused by a "blunt force" and it has nothing to do with penetration!Blunt force trauma:
https://reference.medscape.com/slideshow/blunt-force-trauma-6007991#1
According to this, "blunt force" has nothing to do with getting stabbed and more to do with being hammered.
So, I think your notion of the word is wrong.
1. Thanos legs are weaker than Hulk's? LMAO. Where did you got this from?
2. Dude, it's called "objects that are closer look bigger than objects that are further". Once Hulk lands on Surtur's crown, we can truly scale their sizes! Hulk is much smaller than Surtur's face!
3. You are the one making fallacious statements. The force required to move an object will not always be smaller than the one required to lift the same object. It all depends on the acceleration.
Again, you need to review your physics.
4. Because Thanos defeated Hulk in seconds, while the Hulkbuster didn't. The Hulkbuster is just as strong as the Hulk.
5. You can speculate on the real composition, but not on it being less dense than human fless.
Blunt force is not well defined as it doesn't have a minimum force or minimum cross sectional area. Touching someone slightly is applying a forceful impact. Touching with the point of a knife vs the head of a hammer is the same thing.
Stabbing with sharp point = blunt force impact. This is easily seen by imagining the observer being smaller than the point that's striking an object.
1. We go by feats.
2. Noooo. Hulk was on Surtur's head punching him with no effect.
3. I know this. That has nothing to do with what I said. My point is that you are assuming mass while we are arguing about it. You can't assume what you are trying to prove.
4. Defeating Hulk in seconds is not proof. Hulk didnt fight Hulk nor did Hulk apply the same hits to the same areas oh Hulk for a comparison. Thanos hit Hulk a bunch of times and in vital areas. Plus Hulk didn't go flying anywhere.
5. We don't know is my point. Surtur is a magical being. All we can do is guess.