Originally posted by h1a8
30% faster is insignificant.
Remember Ozy is a counter attacker. He will wait for DP to strike.
DP superior reflexes are irrelevant to that situation.
A defender can be 30% slower and still easily be able to block, parry, dodge attacks.Here's the math.
When DP arm moves 24inches then Ozy arm would have moved at least 18in. Moving 100mps faster is nothing when both are moving within 30% of each other.
Now square that extra speed. KE = 1/2 Mass times Velocity Squared.
Again, your maths ignores that DP can see that Ozy is moving to parry, and change attack accordingly.
Originally posted by riv6672
Deadpool wins, and we all get college credit for attending the thread.
Nice! 😆
Excellent, I got started on that Math Theory degree I always wanted 🙂
Anyways, Wade bodies Ozy. Too fast, too strong, too durable, and he's a better fighter who has fought bigger, badder dudes than ol Adrian.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Now square that extra speed. KE = 1/2 Mass times Velocity Squared.Again, your maths ignores that DP can see that Ozy is moving to parry, and change attack accordingly.
A block force takes a small fraction of the striking force. A parry takes the same force (a very small one) for all average sized human arm mass attacks, no matter how strong. That's because the force is directed orthogonal to the direction of the applied force.
I went over that. No one can significantly alter the direction their full powered strikes mid flight. They simple can't change their momentum significantly. Your example with DP slicing the bullet is faulty. He used one simple swiping motion to slice the bullet. If the bullet would have, all of a sudden, change directions then DP would be helpless to stop the bullet. He would have to stop his swinging momentum and then reapply his force to the new direction (starting from rest speed and building up new speed).
Originally posted by Silent Master
Why are you so biased?
How? 30% is insignificant when it comes to blocking attacks as I explained why. 30% is not insignificant in some other applications though.
Originally posted by h1a8
A block force takes a small fraction of the striking force. A parry takes the same force (a very small one) for all average sized human arm mass attacks, no matter how strong. That's because the force is directed orthogonal to the direction of the applied force.
My point was that for every strike Ozy may or may not land, Wade's punches would have more KE. Parry a strike? You've just got by a bomb in your forearm.
I went over that. No one can significantly alter the direction their full powered strikes mid flight. They simple can't change their momentum significantly. Your example with DP slicing the bullet is faulty. He used one simple swiping motion to slice the bullet. If the bullet would have, all of a sudden, change directions then DP would be helpless to stop the bullet. He would have to stop his swinging momentum and then reapply his force to the new direction (starting from rest speed and building up new speed).
My example with the bullet was to show that his bullet feat was more impressive than Ozy's.
But apart from that, you 'going over that' doesn't negate the point beside you just saying la la la doesn't work.
1. You are assuming Ozy just counter hits. He does not do so against Comedian. Deadpool actually does so against Ajax ('Fine. Fists'😉.DP actually doesn't swing first a lot of the time.
2. You are ignoring DPs other limbs. Throw a punch, sees Ozy moving to deflect, punch/kick/headbutt elsewhere. Remember, and this is my point, he's fast enough to react to bullets that travel 100m/sec faster than anything Ozy faced.
How? 30% is insignificant when it comes to blocking attacks as I explained why. 30% is not insignificant in some other applications though.
When again, he can not only move faster than Ozy, but react faster than Ozy. If you are allowing that Ozy can see what Wade is doing and will react based on his feats, why can't Wade see what Ozy is doing and then counter react?
Wade does A (assuming massively that he goes first, which as I've said he doesn't often do so).
Ozy sees this, and attempts B
Wade now sees Ozy attempting B, and does C
Ozy is still trying to counter A, and now has to counter C with D.
Wade sees this etc etc.
It just piles up for Ozy. Wade lands a hit. Rinse and repeat.
With blows that are moving 100metres/second faster than anything Ozy has ever reacted to.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Not my point. I wasn't using KE as an argument that Ozy can't block (although it is a good point). How small is this force needed, by the by?
My point was that for every strike Ozy may or may not land, Wade's punches would have more KE. Parry a strike? You've just got by a bomb in your forearm.
Not my point either, and I think you're willfully trying to misrepresent me.
My example with the bullet was to show that his bullet feat was more impressive than Ozy's.
But apart from that, you 'going over that' doesn't negate the point beside you just saying la la la doesn't work.
1. You are assuming Ozy just counter hits. He does not do so against Comedian. Deadpool actually does so against Ajax ('Fine. Fists'😉.DP actually doesn't swing first a lot of the time.
2. You are ignoring DPs other limbs. Throw a punch, sees Ozy moving to deflect, punch/kick/headbutt elsewhere. Remember, and this is my point, he's fast enough to react to bullets that travel 100m/sec faster than anything Ozy faced.Your explanation is fault however, and ignores the extreme damage attempting to block a fist with that much KE, and ignores someone as unconventional/agile as DP doing anything else except throwing punches.
When again, he can not only move faster than Ozy, but react faster than Ozy. If you are allowing that Ozy can see what Wade is doing and will react based on his feats, why can't Wade see what Ozy is doing and then counter react?
Wade does A (assuming massively that he goes first, which as I've said he doesn't often do so).
Ozy sees this, and attempts B
Wade now sees Ozy attempting B, and does C
Ozy is still trying to counter A, and now has to counter C with D.
Wade sees this etc etc.It just piles up for Ozy. Wade lands a hit. Rinse and repeat.
With blows that are moving 100metres/second faster than anything Ozy has ever reacted to. [/B]
You are not understanding the physics of parrying. No matter how strong the punching force is (1lb to 1million tons) it takes the same amount of force to parry the arm from the side. Parrying is applying a force orthogonal to the direction of applied force. Ozy would not be stopping the momentum but altering the direction of it. The exact force needed to parry a human arm the mass of DP's arm is extremely small.
Ozy countered 100% of the time against comedian (or nearly 100% if I missed something). He is primarily a counter attacker.
Also by Newtons 3rd law DP will experience the same force that he gives. You say Ozy will be hurt trying to block DP but so will DP. Although my argument is mostly about parrying and not directly opposing (mostly in blocking).
And you are assuming things I never said. I never said DP can't react or see Ozy easier than Ozy can perceive DP. I know that he can. Why do you think my argument stems from counter attacking?
DP superior reflexes and speed would be irrelevant once Ozy parries. Why? Because DP would be open to an attack (defenseless) momentarily.
Finally, DP can't alter his attack mid attack for the reasons I gave. If you disagree then let's just argue that point for now. No need to be arguing 50 things at the same time.
Originally posted by h1a8
You are not understanding the physics of parrying. No matter how strong the punching force is (1lb to 1million tons) it takes the same amount of force to parry the arm from the side. Parrying is applying a force orthogonal to the direction of applied force. Ozy would not be stopping the momentum but altering the direction of it. The exact force needed to parry a human arm the mass of DP's arm is extremely small.
Ozy countered 100% of the time against comedian (or nearly 100% if I missed something). He is primarily a counter attacker.
Also by Newtons 3rd law DP will experience the same force that he gives. You say Ozy will be hurt trying to block DP but so will DP. Although my argument is mostly about parrying and not directly opposing (mostly in blocking).
And you are assuming things I never said. I never said DP can't react or see Ozy easier than Ozy can perceive DP. I know that he can. Why do you think my argument stems from counter attacking?
DP superior reflexes and speed would be irrelevant once Ozy parries. Why? Because DP would be open to an attack (defenseless) momentarily.Finally, DP can't alter his attack mid attack for the reasons I gave. If you disagree then let's just argue that point for now. No need to be arguing 50 things at the same time.
You continually move the goal posts, I feel. First you said DP wasn't significantly faster. Then argued their feats were comparable. Then tried casting doubt on the guns used. Then argued 30% isn't significant (if not, please tell me what %age IS significant, and please provide concrete proof and not your logic. If you bring your numbers in, please provide sources as I have.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85That's not how he parried against the comedian, however. Rewatch their fight. Ozy used his arms to block the punches.
[/B]
So is DP.
Which is not how Ozy fights.
Which is not how DP fights, nor Ozy.
He does so against Ajax. Rewatch their fight.
You continually move the goal posts, I feel. First you said DP wasn't significantly faster. Then argued their feats were comparable. Then tried casting doubt on the guns used. Then argued 30% isn't significant (if not, please tell me what %age IS significant, and please provide concrete proof and not your logic. If you bring your numbers in, please provide sources as I have.
DP isn't significantly faster as I explained why. No contradiction there.
There feats are comparable. No contradiction there.
I did try to cast doubt on the bullets/guns used. No contradiction there.
I still argue that 30% isn't significant in this subject. No contradiction there.
Significant is when someone is not fast enough to move the minimum distance to required to defend during the attack.
Originally posted by riv6672
^^^So first he (Deadpool) doesn’t have superior reflexes and speed, but now he does and it’s irrelevant.
Or something.
I never stated that DP didn't have superior reflexes or speed. By superior, I mean better.
Originally posted by h1a8
I never stated that DP didn't have superior reflexes or speed. By superior, I mean better.
There’s a point in a debate where a person realizes enough’s enough;
Points have been made, accepted/rejected, etc. it’s time to move on.
You’ve never reached that point.
Originally posted by h1a8
Ozy also parried as well. He will switch to parrying if he sees he has to. Blocking is partially parrying anyway. That means, a fraction of the punching force is felt during a block. But you are forgetting Netwon's 3rd Law. DP will experience the same force. In reality, being blocked hurts worst than blocking someone.
DP is not primarily a counter attacker. There are many instances of him attacking first. DP only counters when the opponent beat him to the punch and attacks first. Meaning, DP wasn't sitting there waiting for the opponent to attack first. There is basically no instances of Ozy attacking first. So again, Ozy will sit back and let DP attack first the vast majority of the time (if not all the time).
Ozy does parry. And when he blocks, part of the block is a parry.
This is the first blatant lie I ever seen you post. Ozy does counter attack. For you to say that's not how he fights is ridiculous. What's going on with you Saint?
No he doesn't. Nowhere does DP throw a full powered attack and changes it midflight. I challenge you to post the scene because I don't know what you are talking about. Making stuff up?'
DP isn't significantly faster as I explained why. No contradiction there.
There feats are comparable. No contradiction there.
I did try to cast doubt on the bullets/guns used. No contradiction there.
I still argue that 30% isn't significant in this subject. No contradiction there.
Significant is when someone is not fast enough to move the minimum distance to required to defend during the attack.
Originally posted by DarkSaint851. So he blocks as well, which is my point.
2. Rewatch the Ajax fight. He stands there waiting for Ajax to come to him and fight.
3. Never said he didn't - I was refuting your point that somehow, all Ozy does is just stand there and parry, whilst all DP does is launch into attacks that he overcommits to.
4. I was refuting your point that ALL Ozy does is parry, and ALL DP does is launch into attacks that he overcommits to.
5. No, I am pointing out that when he fought Ajax, he parries/blocks, counter attacks, and when his punch is parried, switches to flips and kicks. Your entire argument stems from DP launching an attack first, that Ozy will parry and counter attack - and then....what? Continually do this the ENTIRE fight, when neither Ozy nor DP do this for entire fights? No.
6. What %age is significantly faster then?
7. They are not, as one is catching a bullet, and the other is slicing a significantly faster bullet in half.
8. I never...said you contradicted? I said you were moving goalposts.
The subject is speed, NOT your moving goalposts of 'parrying'. [/B]
1. So you are going to ignore what I said about blocking? I stated that if blocking was affecting Ozy then he would switch to parrying. Also, according the newton's 3rd law, DP would experience the same force. Being blocked hurts more than blocking someone. So DP would phuck himself up as well if that was the case.
2. I saw the Ajax fight multiple times looking for what you are talking about. Nowhere does DP throw a strike and changes the trajectory of it mid-flight based off Ajax changing his direction.
3. Moot. Blocking won't do anything to either character here. So that's that.
4. You quoted the part where I stated Ozy will counter attack. You stated he doesn't fight like that, which is a lie.
5. Ozy has 100% counter attacked in the whole film. Never did he throw the first attack. Let's say I missed one instance, then Even if Ozy somehow throws an attack first then DP would definitely be able to defend and counter Ozy. But Ozy will do this far more times than DP does him. Neither is one shotting the other. Therefore, Ozy has the advantage based off fighting style.
6. If one has their guard up then they will only have to move a matter of inches to defend against attacks launched at their torso and head. The distance the arm or leg has to travel to strike the defender is a matter of feet. So you do the math. What reasonable percentage does it take for someone to be able to move several feet before someone else can move several inches (or a foot at the most)?
7. It's comparable because both involve bullet timing and speed in which both feats are within insignificant amounts from each other (the slower can still defend against the faster).
8. I never moved goalposts. My stance has always stayed the same. DP is faster but not by so much that Ozy wouldn't be able to defend. Ozy is a majority counter attacker, waiting for his opponent to strike first. The latter gives him the advantage in the fight.
9. My exact words in this quote is "defend", not "parry". I admitted to blocking as well as parrying earlier. So no goalposts where moved.