Darth Maul vs Kylo Ren

Originally posted by Galan007
Agree.

Kylo has quite a few feats/accolades that certainly indicate his Force power is superior, but his saber skill is what I'm unsure of. He's not some talentless feeb, but he also doesn't have many lightsaber showings to pull from.

I agree with the logic. It is heavily implied that Kylo had a similar potential to the likes of Anakin and Luke, so it makes sense that he could have very well become a high-level swordsman after nearly 20 years of instruction from Luke himself(whose skills were already on par with Vader's as of RotJ.)

I'm just saying that there isn't much actual info to pull from, as Kylo doesn't have many feats/accolades in that respect.

Yeah there isn’t /:

Originally posted by McP
Kylo wasn't capable of overhelming a Praetorian Guards with his Force powers. Being unarmed, he was trashed by clowns of ren. He needed a lightsaber to stomp them.

It's impossible to describe how badly Maul stomps this trash.

😂

👆

Clearly there’s no point trying to convince anyone else ^
Despite the fact that no one has posted any valid argument as to why Maul would win. I’ve already debunked the argument as to why Kylo lost to Rey and was challenged by the praetorians

^
Obviously not.

Kylo is ~30 y/o by the time of the ST, he began his training at 14 y/o I believe. With 16 years of training and the potential of his bloodline, he scales far beyond Maul. Luke was Vader level after what, 4 years of training?
There is no reason to believe otherwise.

Nothing more then your asumption. In that way of thinking, in terms of a new canon, Anakin/Vader should never be even reachable for Luke. Perhaps Luke was capable of learning super-quickly. And perhaps Kylo was even slower-learner then Anakin. I guess so. Perhaps if he would be a member of Yoda's race, and would have a few ages of training, he wouldn't be that inferior.

But I have to be fair, when he was in a one vs one against any non-Force user, he was very effective.

I’m just saying there’s no reason to believe that my “assumption” is wrong. In the absence of feats to scale Kylo, the only way to gauge his level is the logic I provided. While this doesn’t give us an exact level of where he’s at, it gives us a pretty good idea. I understand if you disagree, but you have to admit that my logic is sound. Kylo even has some accolades that reinforce this logic, such as:
"Kylo Ren has a lifetime of training and practice, is one of the most powerful combatants in the history of Star Wars, and is the leader of the Knights of Ren“
-starwars.com

But your logic is inherently flawed as already proven with the Anakin comparison. Anakin, with ten years of formal training, was inferior to Luke with four years of training. Not to mention Rey, with a single year of training, was Kylo's equal.

Also, Maul apparently had great potential as well. Probably not as high as Kylo, but it's unlikely to be greatly inferior considering he had the potential to surpass Sidious.

It’s not flawed, it’s just not precise. But it does give us a ballpark idea. Even so, Kylo had more training than Luke and Anakin combined. Anakin had ~10 years of training, Luke has ~4, meanwhile Kylo had ~16 years of training. It’s laughable to think that he wouldn’t at least be maul level.

^
No, it isn't. I just proved it. By your scalling, Luke who was just barely trained, shold never be able to beat Vader, who had decades of trainign and experience and - in shitsney canon - is condisered to be superior to his ROTS Anakin version. Anakin had 10 years of training as Kenobi's padawan + 3 years of training on the battlefield during a war. And then he had more then 10 years (if we use his version between ROTS and ANH) or about 20 years (ANH version) to hone his skills. How is Luke even comperable to him? And yet, Luke is considered to be his equal as of ROTJ ergo superior to likes of ROTS Obi-Wan, Anakin, Mace, Dooku.

EDIT:
Doesn't matter, Ares834 explained it shorter and better.

As to your point about Rey, she gained a lot of Kylo’s power and skill thru their dyad. Snoke even says as Kylo’s power grew, so would his equal in the light. The force balances itself out.

The force balances itself out. As Snoke said, as Kylo’s power grew, so would his equal in the light. This should be applicable to Luke and Vader as well and would explain luke’s rapid power growth

Another asumption. Really, not a valid point as along as you somehow will prove it with any kind of quote or canon's statement.

It’s a fair assumption considering the same applies to Kylo and Rey.

When you supplement it with the fact that Kylo is boasted as “one of the most powerful combatants in the history of Star Wars”, I find it hard to believe that he’s not > Maul.

Not only that, but Kylo actually scales above Ventress by tanking Chewie’s bowcaster shot and still being able to stand and fight. Ventress received a less powerful shot from a blaster in TCW and had to be carried away, not even being able to stand on her own. This may not carry over to lightsaber combat, but it scales Kylo far above Ventress in terms of force augmentation.

Now you may not agree with my logic, but it heavily outweighs any evidence I’ve seen placing Maul>Kylo. Which is why I believe Kylo would win.

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
It’s a fair assumption considering the same applies to Kylo and Rey.

When you supplement it with the fact that Kylo is boasted as “one of the most powerful combatants in the history of Star Wars”, I find it hard to believe that he’s not > Maul.

Not only that, but Kylo actually scales above Ventress by tanking Chewie’s bowcaster shot and still being able to stand and fight. Ventress received a less powerful shot from a blaster in TCW and had to be carried away, not even being able to stand on her own. This may not carry over to lightsaber combat, but it scales Kylo far above Ventress in terms of force augmentation.

Now you may not agree with my logic, but it heavily outweighs any evidence I’ve seen placing Maul>Kylo. Which is why I believe Kylo would win.

Great to see some Kylo respect on here.

Very underrated character.

And the only good thing that came from the sequels 😂

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
As to your point about Rey, she gained a lot of Kylo's power and skill thru their dyad.

Maul was able to easily take on two Jedi in their prime, he put up a decent fight against Darth Sidious, fought Pre Vizla who's a trained warrior without the use of the Force and beat him, he also defeated Greivous in combat

Kylo has that great feat of stopping the blaster bolt and holding it in place for several minutes and ragdolling non Force users and inexperienced ones as well but most of his Force abilities aren't combat related as good as they are like the mind reading or the transporting objects or the healing and Force gateway with Rey, all great uses of the Force but none really applicable in a heated battle, as far as his lightsaber showings hes got very little; he struggled against Snokes guards but was able to easily beat the Knights of Ren which is a good showing but they don't have sabers so id imagine they would be at a severe disadvantage to somebody with a lightsaber

All in all if you compare battle feats Maul wins this one for sure

He was also amped by the Dyad BS when he fought the clowns of Ren. So much for his only decent combat showing...