Weakest person who can repeat #2

Started by NemeBro10 pages

Originally posted by krisblaze
It's just inconsistent is all.
Having like 10% more strength and speed than someone means that you can completely nosell all their attacks, move faster than they can perceive and so on.
Roshi could apparently destroy the moon with a power level of like 100.
Frieza had a power level of like 100 million, and his destructive capabilities were like slightly higher. Kid Buu had like a million times that power, and his destructive capabilities were roughly the same.
You're mostly just ignorant of both the series and of how much more power it takes to destroy, say, Earth than it does the moon tbh.

Roshi at a power level of 139 destroyed the moon, yes (though some argue this was an extreme outlier given the rest of the feats in Dragon Ball and Piccolo at the start of Z was the first "legitimate" moon buster).

It takes about 1,800 more energy to destroy the Earth than it does the moon.

A power level of 250,000+, or about half of Freeza's base form and over twice as strong as Captain Ginyu.

If you subscribe to the idea that Piccolo's feat was the first legitimate moon buster, then to destroy Earth with the same attack and ease it would take a power level of over 500,000, which is to say base form Freeza tier.

Either way, both scale around to base form Freeza who is the first undeniable planet buster in the series, interestingly.

Now, that doesn't matter because it is obvious that much thought was not put into the power levels and how they scale to characters' abilities.

But the idea that as the characters' power increases their actual abilities don't is just wrong.

Cell's statement that he can destroy the entire solar system has been backed up by many sources, and the power to bust a solar system is many many orders of magnitude beyond destroying Earth.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You're mostly just ignorant of both the series and of how much more power it takes to destroy, say, Earth than it does the moon tbh.

Roshi at a power level of 139 destroyed the moon, yes (though some argue this was an extreme outlier given the rest of the feats in Dragon Ball and Piccolo at the start of Z was the first "legitimate" moon buster).

It takes about 1,800 more energy to destroy the Earth than it does the moon.

A power level of 250,000+, or about half of Freeza's base form and over twice as strong as Captain Ginyu.

If you subscribe to the idea that Piccolo's feat was the first legitimate moon buster, then to destroy Earth with the same attack and ease it would take a power level of over 500,000, which is to say base form Freeza tier.

Either way, both scale around to base form Freeza who is the first undeniable planet buster in the series, interestingly.

Now, that doesn't matter because it is obvious that much thought was not put into the power levels and how they scale to characters' abilities.

But the idea that as the characters' power increases their actual abilities don't is just wrong.

Cell's statement that he can destroy the entire solar system has been backed up by many sources, and the power to bust a solar system is many many orders of magnitude beyond destroying Earth.

Everyone seemed pretty sure Vegeta was about the destroy the Earth, and he wasn't nowhere near half base Freeza.

Originally posted by cdtm
Everyone seemed pretty sure Vegeta was about the destroy the Earth, and he wasn't nowhere near half base Freeza.
Not really my point, I'm just disputing the idea that the characters don't get demonstrably or practically more powerful as they become more powerful.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
SPC could destroy the whole solar system.

This and it was said in a canon source. DBZ have complete control of their ki. They can shoot out a blast that backlash of power didnt even destroy the buildings around them but it would be>>>>>> a planetary attack produced by a far weaker opponent.

Then, it was outright said on panel that Vegeta died from not being able to breath in space (it was also said about Super Saiyan, namek saga Goku). It didn't have a freaking thing to do with the planet explosion impact.

Also, planet Namek is bigger than Earth, AND, Frieza said that he underestimated the planet durability. Piccolo said that Frieza could destroy planet Namek in an instant. The guy split the planet in 1/3 with just 2 fingers, CASUALLY. Then he tanked a blast that was 20 times planetary and this is the weaker versions of DB.

Originally posted by carver9
This and it was said in a canon source.

By numerous sources, you mean:

https://pm1.narvii.com/6599/6214d3101c0d4d9268cfbeb11986491bb8bb2371_hq.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Enzeru entire post was just outright boo boo and false.

All of it?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
By numerous sources, you mean:

https://pm1.narvii.com/6599/6214d3101c0d4d9268cfbeb11986491bb8bb2371_hq.jpg

Those rags are as canon as that time Piccolo and Goku went to drivers school.

Why do we go by statements though?

If we went by statements, then Hulk has limitless strength and Sentry has limitless power. Limitless power is well beyond being able to destroy a solar system. And that has been said about the Sentry far more often than anything has been said about Cell having solar system busting power.

And I'll gladly repeat it again: When it mattered, Cell had to sacrifice his own life and to power up for an entire minute to be able to destroy Earth.

If Muten Roshi and Piccolo, two characters well below the second form of Cell can easily destroy the Moon within few seconds... Then why does Cell need to power up for a minute to destroy the Earth? Why does Golden Frieza, who should be well above even Perfect Cell need to attack the Earths core to destroy the planet... instead of just casually busting it, right?

As I said: Dragonball characters have plenty of space cheese feats, when it absolutely doesn't matter. That's their equivalent of hyperbole in western superhero comics: limitless this, universal that.

Originally posted by cdtm
Those rags are as canon as that time Piccolo and Goku went to drivers school.

Keep crying.

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/510kr6/why_do_people_discredit_cells_solar_system/

2. https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/v-jump-may-2013-akira-toriyama-special-interview/

3. https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/volume-f-akira-toriyama-script-comments/

Originally posted by Galan007
Cell's ability to destroy the solar system with his final Kamehameha was confirmed in an official bio which described the 'Grades' of Super Saiyan...

Translation:
[b]Super Saiyan Grade Five (Super Saiyan 2)

"An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

...So his statement was a lot more than just an empty boast. [/B]

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Kamesennin and Pre-King Kai Piccolo both destroyed the moon.

Saiyan Saga Vegeta was a planet buster.

It only makes sense that SPC would be a solar system buster, considering that he was SSJ2 level.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Why do we go by statements though?

Gee, maybe because Tori uses them as narration...?

This assumes the translations are correct.

Sure, DB had its fair share of mistranslations.

The solar system statement wasn't one of them.

But how do we know for certain? I've seen entire threads - running into the dozens of pages - arguing about what Omniverse Vs Multiverse Vs Metaverse means, and whether Carey's Presence in Lucifer meant ALL of creation when etc etc.

Just feels weird that a translation (even when official) is just accepted when we argue for years about whether Rebirth Superman is a combo of pre and post n52, or about the meaning of Hercs etc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But how do we know for certain?

We don't, as nobody knows Japanese on this site.

Well, maybe shiv does, but he seems a tiny little bit insane.

Manga (both VIZ and old scans), anime dubbing and bio translations don't contradict each other there, so I don't see the problem.

We could disregard the whole series as non-canon, assuming everything was translated wrong.

Same as we could disregard whole Marvel and DC continuities, assuming that artists never cared about the script and just did their own thing.

But with comics, at least I, personally, can be sure that Logan's claws are made with metal.

Cyclops' eyebeams are sometimes said to be HV. We disregard and ignore that, and go with them being concussive blasts.

Batman is named as a human. We straight up ignore that.

All I'm saying is, English is..... challenging for some members of the forum. And now we're introducing Japanese into the mix.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Gee, maybe because Tori uses them as narration...?

So then Goku loses to the Sentry by default, right?

If both release their energies and the Sentry is limitless, while Gokus power can be determined via DB power upscaling math... then there will come a point, where Goku maxes out, while the Sentry keeps on going.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Why do we go by statements though?

If we went by statements, then Hulk has limitless strength and Sentry has limitless power. Limitless power is well beyond being able to destroy a solar system. And that has been said about the Sentry far more often than anything has been said about Cell having solar system busting power.

And I'll gladly repeat it again: When it mattered, Cell had to sacrifice his own life and to power up for an entire minute to be able to destroy Earth.

If Muten Roshi and Piccolo, two characters well below the second form of Cell can easily destroy the Moon within few seconds... Then why does Cell need to power up for a minute to destroy the Earth? Why does Golden Frieza, who should be well above even Perfect Cell need to attack the Earths core to destroy the planet... instead of just casually busting it, right?

As I said: Dragonball characters have plenty of space cheese feats, when it absolutely doesn't matter. That's their equivalent of hyperbole in western superhero comics: limitless this, universal that.

Are you really comparing comic books to anime? Two completely different worlds. Statements in DB hold weight. I dont think this topic is meant for you. Stick with Sentry.

Also, comics have numerous of writers reaching for the same character, so the consistency will always be jacked up. DB canon have one writer focusing primarily on power levels. Theres no comparison when it comes to statements from both parties.

Originally posted by carver9

Are you really comparing comic books to anime? Two completely different worlds. Statements in DB hold weight.

If statements don't hold weight in comics, then half of the posts you've ever made on the Hulk gets immediately thrown out of the window.

Originally posted by carver9

I dont think this topic is meant for you.

You've asked your question on a superhero battle board. Surely you've been expecting the majority of answers to include some kind of a superhero, since that's what people on this board are interested in and well versed about.

Originally posted by carver9

Stick with Sentry.

Aren't there already enough people on this board constantly making fun out of you? Do you really want another enemy? Especially one, who likes you as of now.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, comics have numerous of writers reaching for the same character, so the consistency will always be jacked up. DB canon have one writer focusing primarily on power levels. Theres no comparison when it comes to statements from both parties.

Sentry's writers consistently say he is limitless though.