Originally posted by Zenwolf
I mean they can be sure, but is in 100% all the time? Is what I’m asking.
Well canon seems to copy paste a lot from the old EU, where Anoon Bondara and Maul had unparalleled Saber skills. But nobody ever seriously believed they were a match for Yoda and Sidious in Sabers due to those quotes.
So no idea why Kylo gets the benefit of the doubt on this.
For some reason this wasn't thread wasn't telling me people were talking in it, here's a working link: https://prnt.sc/wf6dng
Also Kylo Ren (TFA) has some scaling with him being stated to be able to beat ESB Luke https://prnt.sc/wf6g6o
ESB Luke was able to defeat the GI, he had a clear edge until he's caught off guard by the GI's saber. Filoni has stated Ventress (presumbly TCW only) >~ GI, so imo
TFA Kylo Ren > ESB Luke ~ Ventress >~ GI
Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Lol ok... I’m not sure why “lightsaber skills” wouldn’t include force augmentation as that’s a pretty big part of it. Greater force augmentation=greater skill. Seems like you’re just nitpicking because you don’t agree with what it says.
Because thats simply not what it means. Never had done.
You can have all the force augmentation you want, and blitz your opponent without using a Saber. But without mastering the firms, you dont have Saber skill.
2 very different things. Same in any sport really.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because thats simply not what it means. Never has done.You can have all the force augmentation you want, and blitz your opponent without using a Saber. But without mastering the forms, you dont have Saber skill.
2 very different things. Same in any sport really.
Edited for spelling errors.
What page is this "much like" quote from TLJ visual dictonary on? Can't find it.
Personally, I do believe that as of TROS, Kylo Ren is meant to be up there with the very best. But the quote, as it's quoted here, seems to be talking about Kylo as of the time he left Luke's new jedi order, so if we take it to mean parity with Luke and Vader, then that would suggest that Ren, as of the time he took out Luke's students, was already on par with Luke/Vader. In order to believe that, you'd also have to believe that TROS Kylo would stomp Vader/Luke, considering that, based on his and Rey's performance against Palpatine's guards and the KOR (both of which are probably superior groups to Snoke's guards), he is at a level where he would stomp even his TLJ self, who is years more advanced than the Ren who took out Luke's students.
^And does that sit well with anybody?
Here's a question:
Lets say you are a professional boxer, and you have an 8 year old son, who much like you, possesses great skill in the sport...would that mean he is on par with you at 8 years old?
Originally posted by Dominis
Here's a question:Lets say you are a professional boxer, and you have an 8 year old son, who much like you, possesses great skill in the sport...would that mean he is on par with you at 8 years old?
Yeah I was about to bring up heavy weights being separated from feather weights.
Originally posted by Dominis
What page is this "much like" quote from TLJ visual dictonary on? Can't find it.
Originally posted by DominisThe entry as a whole is in reference to "Supreme Leader"(ie. TLJ/RoS) Kylo. So it's logical to assume the quote is speaking to Kylo's skills as of that era.
Personally, I do believe that as of TROS, Kylo Ren is meant to be up there with the very best. But the quote, as it's quoted here, seems to be talking about Kylo as of the time he left Luke's new jedi order, so if we take it to mean parity with Luke and Vader, then that would suggest that Ren, as of the time he took out Luke's students, was already on par with Luke/Vader. In order to believe that, you'd also have to believe that TROS Kylo would stomp Vader/Luke, considering that, based on his and Rey's performance against Palpatine's guards and the KOR (both of which are probably superior groups to Snoke's guards), he is at a level where he would stomp even his TLJ self, who is years more advanced than the Ren who took out Luke's students.^And does that sit well with anybody?
Originally posted by DominisBut the quote doesn't state that Kylo possesses high-level skill "for his age" or w/e. It just makes a blanket generalization that as of TLJ/RoS, Kylo possessed "formidable lightsaber skills" that were "much like" that of Luke and Vader.
Here's a question:Lets say you are a professional boxer, and you have an 8 year old son, who much like you, possesses great skill in the sport...would that mean he is on par with you at 8 years old?
Do I think that statement alone incontrovertibly puts Kylo on par with Luke or Vader as a swordsman? No. But I certainly think the intent was for Kylo's skills to at least be in that general tier... Otherwise there would be no contextual point for Luke/Vader to be mentioned at all there. /shrug
Originally posted by Scizard
Also Kylo Ren (TFA) has some scaling with him being stated to be able to beat ESB Luke https://prnt.sc/wf6g6oESB Luke was able to defeat the GI, he had a clear edge until he's caught off guard by the GI's saber. Filoni has stated Ventress (presumbly TCW only) >~ GI, so imo
TFA Kylo Ren > ESB Luke ~ Ventress >~ GI
That’s pretty huge for Kylo. How has this not been talked about before?
Originally posted by Galan007
Here's the full page:
https://ibb.co/syrBWwn
-Ultimate Star Wars (New Edition)
Oh ok. That's why I couldn't find it, the OP said TLJ visual dictionary.
Originally posted by Galan007
The entry as a whole is in reference to "Supreme Leader"(ie. TLJ/RoS) Kylo. So it's logical to assume the quote is referencing Kylo's skills as of that era.
Yes but if the "much like" part is meant to be read as Ren being on par with Luke and Vader, then wouldn't the following sentence seem to suggest that he had possessed that same level of skill as of the time he faced Luke's students, since that is the following example used to give the reader an idea of Ren's skill?
That's why I don't think the "much like" part is meant to be read as an exact indicator of how skilled Kylo is compared to them, but rather that being related to them, he naturally possesses great skill in combat much like they did. Not necessarily the same level of skill.